The Definitive Oil Capacity Thread!

[thedeatons]

There have been a lot of posts on this topic. Most everyone knows my opinion. So far many people (Cannondale27, Canniboomer, Kdeal to name a few) have disagreed with me, which is fine. I am starting this thread so I may offer up proof of why my method is acceptable.

I should first mention that I didn????????t think of this method. Cdsracer has taught me pretty much everything I know about Dales. Some people may frown upon the knowledge I have received, which is fine. Opinions are okay. Bottom line is our Dales are fast, dyno proven, and ridden harder than Christina Aguilera on a hot summer night. Our rides are primarily in the dunes, for three days at a time, typically once per month. The dunes are a super-harsh environment, and are very taxing on the engines. Everything needs to be spot on regarding the map while riding hard in the dunes, further proving this method as acceptable.

The debate is how much oil to pour into the engine after an oil change.

The manual says oil capacity is 1.5 qts.

Point #1: This is assuming a dry fill. Engine completely dry, frame completely dry, oil lines completely dry. All the oil is not typically removed during a typical Cannondale oil change. Anyone who has ever pulled an engine knows that some oil stays inside the sump no matter how far over you tip the quad. The lines can also retain some oil, as can the frame.

We typically are able to extract 1 qt ???????? 1.25 qts during a typical oil change. Adding 1.5 qts to a frame/engine that did not release the entire 1.5 qts during the oil change would instantly throw the oil level over capacity, causing an oil puking, potentially hydrolocking position, due to too much oil being in the crankcase, under the piston. We have had this situation plenty of times when attempting to refill with 1.5 qts.

Point #2: Refilling the frame with 1 qt after an oil change always places the oil level halfway up the dipstick (between the bottom and the ???????full??????? line), which is within the operating range of the engine????????s oil capacity per the downloadable 2002 Owner????????s Manual. Adding another .5 qts has always resulted in the oil level being at the top of the dipstick (where the line is), meaning the frame is ???????full???????. This in turn has always resulted in an oil puking, potentially hydrolocking position, as mentioned above.

Point #3: It has been mentioned that refilling with 1 qt of oil will result in increased bearing/cam wear and potential premature engine failure. Right now cdsracer has his quad in his garage, in running condition. The 2002 Cannibal was purchased from Alba Action Sports in San Diego back in 2002, by cdsracer. He is the original, and only owner. The engine has never been removed from the frame, other than lowering it, removing the sidecover, and loctiting cartridge plate bolts, then raising the engine back into position. The quad is now 6 years old, and is running on all the original parts, as assembled by the factory (save for the cartridge bolt loctiting mentioned above). After the first oil change cdsracer refilled with 1.5 qts, and promptly found the quad in a hydrolocked state. He reduced the oil capacity to 1 qt, and the hydrolocking problem subsided. The quad has been running using this 1 qt refill method for 6 years! Cams have been inspected numerous times by removing the cam cover with the engine in the frame, revealing no abnormal wear. While the engine does have a tendency to spin flywheels at the dunes (lots of main bearing play after 6 years), that is the only recurring problem experienced. The quad was dyno????????d earlier this year (2008) on the same dyno that my ported 450 made 51.8hp. Cdsracer????????s quad made 45hp with a Supertrapp and open air filter with a K&N filter. How????????s that for premature failure?!?

This is my proof of why this method works. Feel free to dispute this method, but I suggest you only do so while providing proof of why this method DOESN????????T work. Without proof your ???????facts??????? mean nothing.

[thedeatons]

P.S.

Point #4: Page 90 of the downloadable 2002 Owner's Manual also says to add 1 US qt. to the frame. Idle for a minute, then recheck oil level to ensure oil level is between the markings. Are we really going to keep arguing when the manual is proving this method!?!

[peterock]

QUOTE (thedeatons @ May 28 2008, 08:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

While the engine does have a tendency to spin flywheels at the dunes (lots of main bearing play after 6 years), that is the only recurring problem experienced.

Wouldn't that be proof that lack of oil quantity attributed to premature bearing wear????

[thedeatons]

After 6 years of run time while still putting out the same power as an engine with a fresh rebuild? 6 YEARS! Come on....

[Haz-Matt]

You have to much time on you hands. I have always added 1.5 qts after every oil change and it ends half way between the bottom of the dip stick and the mark. If you run the engine to get it at operating temp and tip on side most all the oil comes out. When its cold I could see why there is more oil left in the sump and or lines. Everybody I know add 1.5 qts and its fine.

[jesshamner]

I am the original owner of a 2003 cannibal and have always put in 1.5 qts of oil with no hydrolocking. That immediately cancels out the one argument you have for filling it with 1 qt since new. I never completely drain it either. I have only pulled the hoses once to drain.

The funny thing is, it doesn't really matter. If your method works for you, then great! By all means keep doing that. Each of these machines are unique so stuff like this is going to happen.

[speedracer]

My oil level never shows on the dip stick,I use about a quart and a forth,still nothing on the dip stick.

[thedeatons]

Excellent! Let me honestly say that I am glad people are able to operate on 1.5 qts of oil. This is a good thing. As I have said before, use as much as you can, more is better. When you problems then back off. My comments suggesting to only use 1 qt are typically directed to folks having the oil puking problem.

The original intention of my thread was to prove that 1 qt is not BAD or WRONG. Actually it has been proven by us that 1 qt is just fine, even according to the oil change procedure in the manual!!!!!!

I am simply trying to say that 1 qt at a minimum is acceptable, and maximum should be whatever is possible in your particular machine.

Please make sure you read each point above, there is a lot of information to take in. I want to make sure to be as informative as possible, while being as truthful as possible.

[Speed 1B]

You are the only one who is running 1 qt of oil while the rest of us are running 1.5 qts.

You dont find it odd that you are the only one? You dont find it odd that the experts are telling you that you are crazy?

If you want to run 1 qt of oil go ahead but enough already...i think everyone here is tired of hearing about it.

I know i dont want someone giving bad advise on this forum because we are famous here for our very good ideas/r&d/advise. I think this is your oppinion and a topic that needs to die.

[Haz-Matt]

Speedracer do you check the oil level with the dip stick screwed in or out? It's supposed to be screwed in when checking. More is not better then you can blow out seals and or gaskets.