Frank White's latest response on the future of ATK
My brother ran into the same title issue. He bought a quad from Haydug and Jividends. He made at least a half dozen calls to ATK and not once did they call him back. He got his title but I'm not sure how.. I know he nagged and nagged to get it. He had to leave it home a few times, because no title means no registration and they check you at the dunes at the paybooth..
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cannondale27
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- Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:41 pm
Pete this one was a bunch of bull.Never got whole story but it sounded to me that Frank bit off more than he could chew.Made deal to do all these from Jividens and then the ATK buyers from ATK must have been ticked that they were paying double what these Jividens ATKs were going for.Frank got cold feet and dicked these guys around on the deal.It all went public and that only made it worse.Frank blamed Haydug and Jividens.I dont know why but maybe some technical thing or some t's werent crossed.Doesnt matter the buyers just wanted what they were promised.Most did end up getting thier titles but after a nightmare episode.It was a great deal for the buyers but Frank never should have entered into a agreement like that.Upgrading a motor should not entitle it to get a new title and manufacture date.Both the buyers and Frank must have realized that.
C27; good post on that one. I knew what I was getting into and I ONLY did it b/c of the contingency which was a flop as I overly stated.
I HAVE A TITLE FOR THE QUAD. Though it did take awhile and LOTS of bitching to get it, I have it in hand and have for awhile. The only reason I actually have it I believe was b/c Haydug finally got ahold of it, but don't quote me on that. I remember having it in an envelope from Haydug Cycles though.
What my problem is as stated is matching information. I have a title that means nothing at all. Engine vin doesn't match b/c my case was an 04 w/NO numbers and frame has no plate. All I asked for was a plate for the frame. As I understood it, that is all I need to be legal here unless I wanna ride it on the road which is a no. I don't even know what I could do about the engine though. No numbers means no numbers so would they just give me a plate for the engine as well or?? If they give me anything at all.
Pete: I will call ATK one more time on Tuesday and give them a day or two to respond since I believe they are closed tomorrow. Will probably call just to make sure though. If nothing happens then we'll see what it takes b/c you evidently have a contact w/them that will respond to you. All I want is my frame/engine situation taken care of. Nothing else, period. I even bought a front end from them and they won't talk to me about the situation. I've given up on getting the rest of the contingency but I don't feel like having the quad impounded anytime soon.
EDIT: To add more fuel to the fire. If anyone recalls, this deal also screwed some buyers b/c the Jividens quads were supposed to be 450's but most were 440's. Luckily since mine blew and I believe ******' did too, we got new updated engines w/450's. Just another poor quality example.
I HAVE A TITLE FOR THE QUAD. Though it did take awhile and LOTS of bitching to get it, I have it in hand and have for awhile. The only reason I actually have it I believe was b/c Haydug finally got ahold of it, but don't quote me on that. I remember having it in an envelope from Haydug Cycles though.
What my problem is as stated is matching information. I have a title that means nothing at all. Engine vin doesn't match b/c my case was an 04 w/NO numbers and frame has no plate. All I asked for was a plate for the frame. As I understood it, that is all I need to be legal here unless I wanna ride it on the road which is a no. I don't even know what I could do about the engine though. No numbers means no numbers so would they just give me a plate for the engine as well or?? If they give me anything at all.
Pete: I will call ATK one more time on Tuesday and give them a day or two to respond since I believe they are closed tomorrow. Will probably call just to make sure though. If nothing happens then we'll see what it takes b/c you evidently have a contact w/them that will respond to you. All I want is my frame/engine situation taken care of. Nothing else, period. I even bought a front end from them and they won't talk to me about the situation. I've given up on getting the rest of the contingency but I don't feel like having the quad impounded anytime soon.
EDIT: To add more fuel to the fire. If anyone recalls, this deal also screwed some buyers b/c the Jividens quads were supposed to be 450's but most were 440's. Luckily since mine blew and I believe ******' did too, we got new updated engines w/450's. Just another poor quality example.
QUOTE (Psychosis @ May 26 2007, 01:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Pete: I will call ATK one more time on Tuesday and give them a day or two to respond since I believe they are closed tomorrow. Will probably call just to make sure though. If nothing happens then we'll see what it takes b/c you evidently have a contact w/them that will respond to you. All I want is my frame/engine situation taken care of. Nothing else, period. I even bought a front end from them and they won't talk to me about the situation. I've given up on getting the rest of the contingency but I don't feel like having the quad impounded anytime soon.
Did you miss what I said in my previous posts? Scan and email me all your stuff and the details. Remember you trying to take care of this yourself last time didn't get you anywhere. Quit beating around the bush, send me your stuff, and lets get this taken care of.Just because Cannondale went out of business does not mean that they did not know how to run a business. A good reputation for quality is not what killed them, it was a number of factors that added up. Look at the loyalty for a company that doesn't even exist anymore. Obviously they did something right, don't you agree? I think it's a bad move on ATK's part not to handle business like Cannondale did. (Frank White says "we don't model out business after Cannondale's)
Also, it seems like ATK has this mind set that they are the Heros of the Cannondale breed and can bring them back to life. When people get upset with ATK, they are told that ATK is the only company left for the Cannondale atv and you should just get over it. It's really sad it has come to this. People aren't bitter because they just feel like it, it's because they have had or heard of a negative experience with them. "I want to see these quads survive and that means backing/supporting ATK. Honda, Suzuki, Yamaha........they have all burned people as well and every complaint you have about cannondale or ATK can be applied to those brands as well." Sorry but if ATK is going to screw people over and wonder why people rag on them, then good luck with sales. The Cannondale community is what kept these machines alive, not ATK. That, I believe, is where the bitterness comes from. You guys act like you came in and saved us and we are ungreatful or something (atleast thats the way I feel). Even the prices you guys have to offer are out of this world...how is ATK helping anything??????
"Like I said, I like these quads and in order for them to survive ATK needs to be supported." This is like a big cycle. People back ATK (or try to), ATK doesn't do what they say, and everyone gets mad. It's happened more than once. BELIEVE ME, PEOPLE DO WANT TO SUPPORT ATK, but HOW can they when they hate ATK??? It almost makes you want to pull your hair out...it is so obvious what needs to be done...make us happy. Give us a reason to back you guys. You can't get support without anything to offer. Thats like some random member asking for support and money...why would we just give in?
This is getting really old and honestly I don't care if I have to ride another quad. I'm not going to go out of my way to support a company like ATK if they are unwilling to support us. I have no problem riding a different quad...I ride for the fun of it, not to "save a dying breed". Look at all the drama and BS this whole thing caused. No wonder so many CDALE riders went to another quad, why wouldn't you. ATK should be happy to get such a patient and loyal community. Maybe I'm wrong, but what all of us are looking for is some support, not ATK's word that the future looks good.
Also, it seems like ATK has this mind set that they are the Heros of the Cannondale breed and can bring them back to life. When people get upset with ATK, they are told that ATK is the only company left for the Cannondale atv and you should just get over it. It's really sad it has come to this. People aren't bitter because they just feel like it, it's because they have had or heard of a negative experience with them. "I want to see these quads survive and that means backing/supporting ATK. Honda, Suzuki, Yamaha........they have all burned people as well and every complaint you have about cannondale or ATK can be applied to those brands as well." Sorry but if ATK is going to screw people over and wonder why people rag on them, then good luck with sales. The Cannondale community is what kept these machines alive, not ATK. That, I believe, is where the bitterness comes from. You guys act like you came in and saved us and we are ungreatful or something (atleast thats the way I feel). Even the prices you guys have to offer are out of this world...how is ATK helping anything??????
"Like I said, I like these quads and in order for them to survive ATK needs to be supported." This is like a big cycle. People back ATK (or try to), ATK doesn't do what they say, and everyone gets mad. It's happened more than once. BELIEVE ME, PEOPLE DO WANT TO SUPPORT ATK, but HOW can they when they hate ATK??? It almost makes you want to pull your hair out...it is so obvious what needs to be done...make us happy. Give us a reason to back you guys. You can't get support without anything to offer. Thats like some random member asking for support and money...why would we just give in?
This is getting really old and honestly I don't care if I have to ride another quad. I'm not going to go out of my way to support a company like ATK if they are unwilling to support us. I have no problem riding a different quad...I ride for the fun of it, not to "save a dying breed". Look at all the drama and BS this whole thing caused. No wonder so many CDALE riders went to another quad, why wouldn't you. ATK should be happy to get such a patient and loyal community. Maybe I'm wrong, but what all of us are looking for is some support, not ATK's word that the future looks good.
[attachment=3734:DSC01196.JPG][attachment=3742:DSC01195.JPG][attachment=3743:DSC
01195.JPG]here is a picture of our pit during a race a couple of weeks ago. Notice the suzuki ez-up to the right of my trailer. That is what I would like from atk. My friend got that and a set of nerf bars free when he bought his suzuki. I think it would be nice advertising. My friend had never raced before, and he was just THRILLED beyond belief to get something like that from suzuki.
Sorry, no picture for some reason, I don't know why. Nevermind.
01195.JPG]here is a picture of our pit during a race a couple of weeks ago. Notice the suzuki ez-up to the right of my trailer. That is what I would like from atk. My friend got that and a set of nerf bars free when he bought his suzuki. I think it would be nice advertising. My friend had never raced before, and he was just THRILLED beyond belief to get something like that from suzuki.
Sorry, no picture for some reason, I don't know why. Nevermind.
Here is the ATK/Jividens/Haydug deal as I (& Jividens) remember it:
Jividens' power equipment was the official ATK dealer. They were less than 2 miles from my location. I could not become an official "motorcycle" dealer within that range. Jividens had 3 brand new motorcycles on the floor. As most of you are familiar with, ATK likes to offer a "parts credit" for each bike to the dealer (whether new atk dealer or old cannondale dealer).
They offered Jividens a deal like this:
Jividens gives ATK 3 brand new motorcycles (+1 blew up C440) so a total of 4 bikes.
ATK will in turn fully update 6 new quads to "ATK 450s" with titles etc.
Here is how I got involved: Have you heard of Jividen's? Nope. They did not have the resource to move the bikes. I talked to them and made a deal to sell the bikes. I had to pull each engine and send them to ATK. I marked them with the last 4 frame vin# and "HDC" on the engine case, so when they were returned, I could keep them with original frame.
The trouble started when ATK sent me mso's for 2 of the bikes, I called and explained they needed to go to Jividens. The Jividen's owner called and verified this situation. So, I was told to send them back, and they would take care of it. Luckily I kept those 2 and sent them out. There is a difference in a "parts dealer with state liscense number" and "motorcycle dealer" which is the same liscense and dealership as a car. I did not have that official liscense and did not want to spend the extra $5,000 per year for it to sell a couple of ATK's that I would end up losing on.
I spoke to Frank personally on several occasions about the deal. He seemed happy I was taking care of the Jividen's deal, since they did not service the bikes (or quads). I know of at least 1 bike that the check was written directly to Jividen's and he still hasn't gotten his title from ATK. We gave up, and he is riding a Cannondale.
Here is the VERY funny part in this: They were supposed to be 450's. ALL of them.
Once they started blowing up (common for WWE pistons at the time) ATK stood up and fixed a couple of them, even rebuilding them to 450 specs. About this same time, they started having finacial difficulties, so I'm guessing that is when they threw out a couple of 440's, probably in their mind thinking they were doing good, since they wouldn't have another blown up 450 to fix in the ver near future. Then sometime in a couple of years, the owner would rebuild it and never pay attention to the fact they just threw away a 95mm piston. That deal blew up in their face when the WI mafia got hit with a 440 instead of a 450.
Pete: I think it is great what you are trying to do. I APPLAUD you for your effort.
However, and PLEASE do not take this the wrong way. You should IMO concentrate your efforts helping someone that will have your back if and when something happens. What happens then is you will wear the egg in your face. I hate to see it happen, but I bet money it will happen sometime. How can you possibly explain ATK trying to sell Pyschosis a new frame for his a-arms? I know you are trying to compare it to me walking into the honda shop and talking to the finance lady about a crf 450. However, ATK has very few employees. The cannondale/atk has NEVER changed since they bought the parts. Everyone should know a simple fact about whether the a-arms they are selling to the customer will fit their frame.
How do you explain the fact that the 450 quads were blowing up faster than they could afford to fix them, yet later they deny building ANY 450 motors. Their excuse for that if I remember: some guy in CA put the engines together, and we forgot we sent him $800 WWE piston kits for those engines. How about ATK's failed contingency? I seriousl thought about riding an ATK when the whole deal come about witht he Jividen's thing. I had raced the 2nd half of the nationals the year before, and never finished below the top 3 in 25+ and 250B class. Then at the first of the next year after my quad was stolen, borred a bike and finished top 5 in pro-am and "A" class. So, with alittle support, I'm pretty sure I could have given ATK 2 national championships. However with the no support I recieved, I sold the bike.
Pete: I have no hard feelings for you, you seem like a nice guy. Again, I applaud you for your efforts. If you applied all of the positive energy towards forming an amateur team with aftermarket support (and did not have a bike specific team) I honestly think you could pull something off. However I feel that by strictly associating yourself to be an only ATK guy, you are cutting yourself off of alot of good opertunities.
Jividens' power equipment was the official ATK dealer. They were less than 2 miles from my location. I could not become an official "motorcycle" dealer within that range. Jividens had 3 brand new motorcycles on the floor. As most of you are familiar with, ATK likes to offer a "parts credit" for each bike to the dealer (whether new atk dealer or old cannondale dealer).
They offered Jividens a deal like this:
Jividens gives ATK 3 brand new motorcycles (+1 blew up C440) so a total of 4 bikes.
ATK will in turn fully update 6 new quads to "ATK 450s" with titles etc.
Here is how I got involved: Have you heard of Jividen's? Nope. They did not have the resource to move the bikes. I talked to them and made a deal to sell the bikes. I had to pull each engine and send them to ATK. I marked them with the last 4 frame vin# and "HDC" on the engine case, so when they were returned, I could keep them with original frame.
The trouble started when ATK sent me mso's for 2 of the bikes, I called and explained they needed to go to Jividens. The Jividen's owner called and verified this situation. So, I was told to send them back, and they would take care of it. Luckily I kept those 2 and sent them out. There is a difference in a "parts dealer with state liscense number" and "motorcycle dealer" which is the same liscense and dealership as a car. I did not have that official liscense and did not want to spend the extra $5,000 per year for it to sell a couple of ATK's that I would end up losing on.
I spoke to Frank personally on several occasions about the deal. He seemed happy I was taking care of the Jividen's deal, since they did not service the bikes (or quads). I know of at least 1 bike that the check was written directly to Jividen's and he still hasn't gotten his title from ATK. We gave up, and he is riding a Cannondale.
Here is the VERY funny part in this: They were supposed to be 450's. ALL of them.
Once they started blowing up (common for WWE pistons at the time) ATK stood up and fixed a couple of them, even rebuilding them to 450 specs. About this same time, they started having finacial difficulties, so I'm guessing that is when they threw out a couple of 440's, probably in their mind thinking they were doing good, since they wouldn't have another blown up 450 to fix in the ver near future. Then sometime in a couple of years, the owner would rebuild it and never pay attention to the fact they just threw away a 95mm piston. That deal blew up in their face when the WI mafia got hit with a 440 instead of a 450.
Pete: I think it is great what you are trying to do. I APPLAUD you for your effort.
However, and PLEASE do not take this the wrong way. You should IMO concentrate your efforts helping someone that will have your back if and when something happens. What happens then is you will wear the egg in your face. I hate to see it happen, but I bet money it will happen sometime. How can you possibly explain ATK trying to sell Pyschosis a new frame for his a-arms? I know you are trying to compare it to me walking into the honda shop and talking to the finance lady about a crf 450. However, ATK has very few employees. The cannondale/atk has NEVER changed since they bought the parts. Everyone should know a simple fact about whether the a-arms they are selling to the customer will fit their frame.
How do you explain the fact that the 450 quads were blowing up faster than they could afford to fix them, yet later they deny building ANY 450 motors. Their excuse for that if I remember: some guy in CA put the engines together, and we forgot we sent him $800 WWE piston kits for those engines. How about ATK's failed contingency? I seriousl thought about riding an ATK when the whole deal come about witht he Jividen's thing. I had raced the 2nd half of the nationals the year before, and never finished below the top 3 in 25+ and 250B class. Then at the first of the next year after my quad was stolen, borred a bike and finished top 5 in pro-am and "A" class. So, with alittle support, I'm pretty sure I could have given ATK 2 national championships. However with the no support I recieved, I sold the bike.
Pete: I have no hard feelings for you, you seem like a nice guy. Again, I applaud you for your efforts. If you applied all of the positive energy towards forming an amateur team with aftermarket support (and did not have a bike specific team) I honestly think you could pull something off. However I feel that by strictly associating yourself to be an only ATK guy, you are cutting yourself off of alot of good opertunities.
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NorCalRacer
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- Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:41 pm
funny, I didn't think anyone had a good experience with ATK and they have a happy customer. As far as I am concerned, if people pay $7000+ for these quads ATK can at least return calls. My experience with them is they are liars, even if it will totally screw you and only make them a buck, they will lie their *** off. They've lied to me about the price of parts, the wiring configuration of status lights, the program in my ecu and a vin tag because mine is falling off. All of those were flat out lies I caught them in, when I confronted them on why a business lies more than a ten year old kid, I was put on hold till I hung up 
Solid company my ***. ATK is run by scum, and until they get the slightest amount of honesty and decency Frank White and his inheritance can piss off, and I say inheritance because there is no way his business practices would have ever spawned a successful company.
Solid company my ***. ATK is run by scum, and until they get the slightest amount of honesty and decency Frank White and his inheritance can piss off, and I say inheritance because there is no way his business practices would have ever spawned a successful company.