The MMI Debate

[Psychosis]

For those remembering here and on Cannondaler months ago mainly started by myself and then Hannibalcannibal who also goes to school there now:

I'm going to start passing this around here. I hate Phoenix, AZ but better than where I'm from but the school consensus after being a student for 6 months and nearly through all my training up until the manufacturer electives is pure crap.

So far I haven't spent anything on the school itself b/c of scholarships, but so far it has been a pure ripoff to those who have heard about it, thought about going, or went and seen firsthand. Since I have been there I have gotten in problems for taking shortcuts that make the job faster, have been around pure morons, and some of the instructors I swear couldn't even work on their own bikes. My starting class of roughly 60 is now down to about 35 of them left and there are maybe 4-5 that I would trust w/my bike. In my last class for example we took apart a CRF150 engine, put it together in a frame, ran it, and then redisassembled. I got mine done in a couple hours and perfect as did one other group. The other 9 engine were **** blown up! I mean, what the ****?

I am venting I know but so far have been screwed over. I have not been taught one thing one on one, have not learned anything outside of a manual, and have not been shown anything else outside what the little packets they give you teach. You wanna go to MMI, go pick up a manual for the bike you're working on at home, read it, and well, you're getting the same training. I have not learned much of anything since attending and I'm basically completely through my certifications. I only have 4 more weeks and I'll be a "fully trained mechanic" as they say.

****, they don't even teach fuel injection in this school until you get like 9 weeks into a manufacturer specific program and it's nothing more than basic dyno tuning and using a power commander basically. A pure pile of crap on what they say before you go for the most part. The class I'm in now I finished all my projects in about 2 days and now basically just have to repeat them for the next 2 weeks or so. Not to mention I've done done like 200 times before. (valve adjustments, carb synching, etc.)

I know Kyle, Hannibalcannibal is leaving and he's been there less than half the time I have. I'm not sure if I'm leaving but anyone looking at going gets a huge negative statement from me. The only thing I've learned was a little electrical which if I took the time could've learned from my dad seeing he's an electrical engineer and laughed at the stuff I mentioned they taught me.

So sorry again for venting but right now I'm fed up w/the school. If I stay I have another 8 months bare minimum to "graduate" and get the slip of paper while spending nearly $15k to do so, or can go off and just start what I planned to anyway. I don't regret moving to Phoenix but do regret the school. I am not a college person but MMI is just an excuse for people to say they have been I've noticed. All the students are either young like myself w/no clue or older and failures in life I've noticed. Just talk to them and find out. So the final verdict: MMI = waste of time/money. I've done more complicated things working on my Dales than the school. ****, I knew how to adjust the bike on the EGA machine and tune better than my instructor! So anyone looking for someone to work for them? Looking to go just about anywhere I can.
-Rant over..

[kdeal]

Mark,

You kind of answered the question yourself..... The only ones there are failures and kids. The classes are obviously geared towards them. The only reason I would stay would be for the piece of paper period. Unfortunately a lot of shops put merit in a diploma from a place like this. So it may be worth the time & money to hang in there to get the diploma so you don't have to start at the bottom of the pay scale at a shop. But any good shop owner will see your talent and quickly move you up the scale if he wants to keep you around.

Good luck my friend, and if you ever land down this way look me up.

Ken

[Sand_Blaster]

Yeah my friend went there for about a year and half, and he hated that school and he said it was a waiste of time.
He also hated Phoenix. lol . He couldn't even get a job anywhere in Oregon after Graduating from that school. He works with drywall now.

[Psychosis]

It's really quite funny on some things. The city of phoenix is kind of messed up too. They target guys on sportbikes I've noticed. I got a parking ticket two days ago for being parked about 3in too far past a parking lane. And that was b/c a car was halfway in a motorcycle only parking spot. Now that's ****** up.

I'm taking a six week leave the week after next and then going to debate my options. Hannibalcannibal I believe said he already signed his release papers, as have three of my friends I've made there, and about the only guys I'd trust w/one of my bikes/quads. The ability of the students is hilarious. Today a guy actually asked if a dirtbike was a two or four stroke and didn't know b/c there wasn't a pipe on it. He seriously had no clue and started do papers for a four-stroke when it was a YZ125. Now THAT's sad. And the instructor though it was funny so let him go for about 30mins till he realized he couldn't do a valve adjustment on it.

[wistech]

Ill bet there are very few motorcycle mechanics in this world who make anywhere near the kind of money of what a good drywall installer makes. I'm not joking . As far as going through it to get the piece of paper Ive got news for you . It may help you get a job but no matter what your always going to start at the rock bottom of the pay scale without a ton of highly trained experience that you cant get in any tech school.
I had the same experience with my classmates . Only a few that graduated with were there to actually become mechanics. Most were there to kill time or their parents sent them away to get rid of them. My lab partner was just there so he could work on the tractors at his fathers farm. One guy seriously could not read at all. He failed every class with around a 25% and his father signed him up for the business managment classes which you needed to pass the basic classes first to get into.
I went into the diesel field just as the industry was bringing out the first electronic diesels. So everything I was taught was already obsolete. I had to learn everything I know today from factory classes and using a service manual .

From my experience being a mechanic is a tough a painful road. I went WTI back in the late 80's with a half dozen of my friends. After graduating and a few years in the field I am the only one who didnt give up on the carreer and go back to school for a higher paying occupation. Plus the fact that you will always start out at the bottom making very little money you get to buy $15,000 to $25,000 worth of tools in the first couple years on top of paying for the school loans. Thats a hoot. I had to deliver pizza on the side for many years just to break even . Funny thing was I made just as much money delivering .LOL

As far as training I dont want to knock motorcycles but what would a motorcycle mechanic do for the majority of his time? Change tires?spark plugs? Adding chrome parts to Harleys you will never be able to afford? Unless you get into some really cool nitch market like tuning street bikes or joining a race team I doubt it will be very rewarding or you will use any high tech knowledge .
The other thing they don't want to recognise is the way the majority of the people feel about mechanics in general. Most feel they are getting ripped off every time they take their vehicle in for service and guess who they blame? Mechanics is also a dog eat dog world and expect little help from other tech's as the better you get the more you will get satisfying projects like rebuilds and diagnostics.
So in my opinion get out ,become and accountant ,computer programmer,get a factory job,anything else and fix small engines for fun in your spare time.
By the way two of the guys I ride quads with both worked at a local bike /quad shop for a couple of years . One went on to become a plumber and the other is now a machinist making just as much if not more money than I do after being topped out in my field for the last 10 years.

This is just my opinion based on personal experience .

[J. Delaney]

I totally agree with what Wistech just said. I went to Ford tech school in the mid 90s. I didn't do too bad, but I could see the writing on the wall so I got out (Ford seriously cut warranty labor rates recently). The only way I have seen people make money working in the motorcycle industry is if they own a niche shop, ie road racing shop. Every other shop owner I've spoke to has said "Motorcycle shops are a great way to turn a big pile of money in to a much smaller pile of money."

Go find a real job you can settle into and play with the motorcycles for fun. Don't turn your hobby into your livleyhood, then it becomes work.

[wistech]

QUOTE (J. Delaney @ Oct 25 2007, 06:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Go find a real job you can settle into and play with the motorcycles for fun. Don't turn your hobby into your livleyhood, then it becomes work.

Wise words. Very true. I need to listen to them more.

[Psychosis]

Agreed. Only reason I went there was to try and catch the niche market people w/a few ideas I've had. Whether they would take off who knows. I think before I blow the rest of my money though I'm going to get out of there and do something different while working on a couple ideas/projects at home. Not completely sure yet. Thanks for the advice guys. A few of you all suggested similar things months back and I ignored it so now I see where everyone was coming from and not all too happy for not paying attention.

[UpsMan]

I plan on becoming a mechanic (sort of) after I retire from ups. I can live off of my pension and my wifes income, if she is still around. I would hate to try to make a living being a mechanic. I just want to do it for fun and to stay busy, not make money. I make a good living beating the piss out of the company trucks, all day long. I love it. I keep our mechanics busy. Our mechanics make pretty good money, but I don't know how the rest of the industry is. No clue.

[rayspeed]

I would much rather you two prove me wrong than do the obvious and rub anything in.
All a piece of paper from anywhere.. even college tells an employer is that you have the abillity to learn and complete something. The reason having a degree pays more is pure numbers (smaller part of the general populaton), and these people tend to become in charge and they take care of their own so to speak, you know surround themselves with people like them.
I work with engineers all day every day and you know what... I could probably plug into any one of thier jobs without the degree and not just make it but dominate. The higher up the corporate food chain they are the less I would want their job responsibillities, stress and headaches. I got at least a four year jump on earnings and never had any school related debt. I have more toys cause I buy them cheap, fix them up and take care of them, a bigger house because I took it upon myself to build it and something money cant buy which is the time to enjoy it cause I positioned myself that way...
It is not what you make but how smart you are with what you have. If a person is not responsible with a small amount of money and only thinks how much better off they would be with more of it would still be stupid... just the proportions change.
Food for thought
Ray