Turbo??
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cannondalemaine
- Posts: 0
- Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:41 pm
Hey guys i am acquiring a GT15 turbocharger from a friend, i do not know very much about turbo's but was wondering how hard they are to install or if anyone every put one on a dale? Would like to make a project out of it but i dont even know the first step to installing one. I guess i am going to have to do some research
There are a few threads on here regarding it.
I fired my bike with a turbo that I mocked up using an IHI turbo, but the engine was not turbo friendly so I didn't do anything but idle. It was also my only trail bike at the time and I didn't want to blow it up. I need to change up some of the piping, as well as change the BOV. Also, my setup is going to require a custom fuel tank which I still need to build. Its been 3 years in the works, just have way too many other projects going on and it has always found the back burner.
My crank for this bike is currently at Timbos. I have been trying to get ahold of him to see how its going. I had a couple different ideas of ways to lower compression, the easiest being to offset the pin in the rod to effectively shorten it a bit. That would allow for a stock style piston to be used (planned on ASSO since they are cheap). The case I planned to use ended up being cracked when I pulled it apart. I just bought a new case off of here a few weeks ago, so as soon as I get the crank done, the engine will start going together.
I have a set of injectors here that I had custom made for this project. Plans are to run it on E85, non intercooled for simplicity at first.
Basically with a 'dale being EFI and completely adjustable cam centerline, it makes a perfect candidate for a turbo. However, weak cases, and few piston options give some hurdles.
I fired my bike with a turbo that I mocked up using an IHI turbo, but the engine was not turbo friendly so I didn't do anything but idle. It was also my only trail bike at the time and I didn't want to blow it up. I need to change up some of the piping, as well as change the BOV. Also, my setup is going to require a custom fuel tank which I still need to build. Its been 3 years in the works, just have way too many other projects going on and it has always found the back burner.
My crank for this bike is currently at Timbos. I have been trying to get ahold of him to see how its going. I had a couple different ideas of ways to lower compression, the easiest being to offset the pin in the rod to effectively shorten it a bit. That would allow for a stock style piston to be used (planned on ASSO since they are cheap). The case I planned to use ended up being cracked when I pulled it apart. I just bought a new case off of here a few weeks ago, so as soon as I get the crank done, the engine will start going together.
I have a set of injectors here that I had custom made for this project. Plans are to run it on E85, non intercooled for simplicity at first.
Basically with a 'dale being EFI and completely adjustable cam centerline, it makes a perfect candidate for a turbo. However, weak cases, and few piston options give some hurdles.
QUOTE (jinx44 @ Dec 18 2009, 11:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
There are a few threads on here regarding it.
I fired my bike with a turbo that I mocked up using an IHI turbo, but the engine was not turbo friendly so I didn't do anything but idle. It was also my only trail bike at the time and I didn't want to blow it up. I need to change up some of the piping, as well as change the BOV. Also, my setup is going to require a custom fuel tank which I still need to build. Its been 3 years in the works, just have way too many other projects going on and it has always found the back burner.
My crank for this bike is currently at Timbos. I have been trying to get ahold of him to see how its going. I had a couple different ideas of ways to lower compression, the easiest being to offset the pin in the rod to effectively shorten it a bit. That would allow for a stock style piston to be used (planned on ASSO since they are cheap). The case I planned to use ended up being cracked when I pulled it apart. I just bought a new case off of here a few weeks ago, so as soon as I get the crank done, the engine will start going together.
I have a set of injectors here that I had custom made for this project. Plans are to run it on E85, non intercooled for simplicity at first.
Basically with a 'dale being EFI and completely adjustable cam centerline, it makes a perfect candidate for a turbo. However, weak cases, and few piston options give some hurdles.
I fired my bike with a turbo that I mocked up using an IHI turbo, but the engine was not turbo friendly so I didn't do anything but idle. It was also my only trail bike at the time and I didn't want to blow it up. I need to change up some of the piping, as well as change the BOV. Also, my setup is going to require a custom fuel tank which I still need to build. Its been 3 years in the works, just have way too many other projects going on and it has always found the back burner.
My crank for this bike is currently at Timbos. I have been trying to get ahold of him to see how its going. I had a couple different ideas of ways to lower compression, the easiest being to offset the pin in the rod to effectively shorten it a bit. That would allow for a stock style piston to be used (planned on ASSO since they are cheap). The case I planned to use ended up being cracked when I pulled it apart. I just bought a new case off of here a few weeks ago, so as soon as I get the crank done, the engine will start going together.
I have a set of injectors here that I had custom made for this project. Plans are to run it on E85, non intercooled for simplicity at first.
Basically with a 'dale being EFI and completely adjustable cam centerline, it makes a perfect candidate for a turbo. However, weak cases, and few piston options give some hurdles.
talk to wistech about wrist pins! he has some new set up put of some high H.P. turbo import car that he told me he's been using.
This is my winter project. Last winter I did a 2jz swap on my Lexus IS300 and put a fat t66 on it and now I'm addicted to boost. I got a bunch of Cannondales to work with so it should be a fun project. Plus I am moving to Vegas in a few months and I need a strong dune machine haha.
Honestly like jinx said Cannondales are already pretty well setup. The stock fuel pump should be plenty, and pulling some timing should help fight detonation. But I'd mix race gas anyways to be sure.
I plan on using a garrett gt12, it is rated for .4L-1.2L and 50hp-130hp. I've read that the gt15 is too laggy on a 450cc application but great for bigger bore quads.
Everything should be pretty straight forward. But my biggest concerns are intercooler lines, intake lines, injectors and where to tap for oil feed/drain and water feed/drain.
I thought about just not using an intercooler and checking temps and seeing how it performed. If I did intercool it I also thought about a rear mounted IC because I don't want to restrict any airflow to the radiator. The big issue is where to run the lines, there definitely isn't room under the tank. And I don't want to make a custom tank although it would be a good option for those with the resources. My ghetto way of doing this would be to make a custom skid plate that was 2-3" lower than the frame, very well supported of course. So that you could run the lines in between the frame and the skid plate. This quad for me would be my dune machine so it wouldn't see too much abuse to the skid plate.
Next issue is the injectors, harleys flow 29 lb/hr which will probably be enough but I'm not sure. I want to run around 10 psi starting out, but would like to push to 20 lbs eventually. Hopefully there isn't any tuning issues as it will be tuned to a flat rate fuel pressure instead of rising rate. Otherwise I've read something about the Edelbrock injectors being used and while they make a 29 lb/hr which would be convenient to tune with (already base maps), they also make a 49 lb/hr injector.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/EDL-3685/
I also would just have a bung welded into the header/manifold and temporarily use the wideband from my car to tune and then leave it. This is to keep costs down, ideally I would permanently have a wideband, but funds will not be available.
The gt12 has a internal wastegate so that is definitely a plus and one less thing to buy. I don't even think I would use a blow off valve as it is not always necessary. But it would maybe be added later on. Again keeping costs down.
It would also be ideal to use aluminum piping, strength, heat exchange, cosmetically. But using some sort of hose should be fine for a while with lower boost (starting with 8-10 psi).
Intake pipe would just be similar to IC piping, plenty of room especially since there won't be an airbox anymore.
That is just my rough plan, been thinking about it all day today. I just need input on the injectors, as searching wasn't too clear. Which injectors fit right in our heads? And if the 29 lb/hr would be enough. Also need input on where to tap oil feed/drain, along with water feed/drain. Is our stock oil pump and water pump up the task?
It would also be ideal to lower the compression and beef up internals, but lower compression pistons aren't really available and I'm definitely not going to have one made. I basically just want to push a stock (updated) motor and see the limits. Boosted yfz450's are running 20lbs reliably on all stock motor. Crazy, but if the yfz can do it I'm determined to prove a Cannondale can too!
Honestly like jinx said Cannondales are already pretty well setup. The stock fuel pump should be plenty, and pulling some timing should help fight detonation. But I'd mix race gas anyways to be sure.
I plan on using a garrett gt12, it is rated for .4L-1.2L and 50hp-130hp. I've read that the gt15 is too laggy on a 450cc application but great for bigger bore quads.
Everything should be pretty straight forward. But my biggest concerns are intercooler lines, intake lines, injectors and where to tap for oil feed/drain and water feed/drain.
I thought about just not using an intercooler and checking temps and seeing how it performed. If I did intercool it I also thought about a rear mounted IC because I don't want to restrict any airflow to the radiator. The big issue is where to run the lines, there definitely isn't room under the tank. And I don't want to make a custom tank although it would be a good option for those with the resources. My ghetto way of doing this would be to make a custom skid plate that was 2-3" lower than the frame, very well supported of course. So that you could run the lines in between the frame and the skid plate. This quad for me would be my dune machine so it wouldn't see too much abuse to the skid plate.
Next issue is the injectors, harleys flow 29 lb/hr which will probably be enough but I'm not sure. I want to run around 10 psi starting out, but would like to push to 20 lbs eventually. Hopefully there isn't any tuning issues as it will be tuned to a flat rate fuel pressure instead of rising rate. Otherwise I've read something about the Edelbrock injectors being used and while they make a 29 lb/hr which would be convenient to tune with (already base maps), they also make a 49 lb/hr injector.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/EDL-3685/
I also would just have a bung welded into the header/manifold and temporarily use the wideband from my car to tune and then leave it. This is to keep costs down, ideally I would permanently have a wideband, but funds will not be available.
The gt12 has a internal wastegate so that is definitely a plus and one less thing to buy. I don't even think I would use a blow off valve as it is not always necessary. But it would maybe be added later on. Again keeping costs down.
It would also be ideal to use aluminum piping, strength, heat exchange, cosmetically. But using some sort of hose should be fine for a while with lower boost (starting with 8-10 psi).
Intake pipe would just be similar to IC piping, plenty of room especially since there won't be an airbox anymore.
That is just my rough plan, been thinking about it all day today. I just need input on the injectors, as searching wasn't too clear. Which injectors fit right in our heads? And if the 29 lb/hr would be enough. Also need input on where to tap oil feed/drain, along with water feed/drain. Is our stock oil pump and water pump up the task?
It would also be ideal to lower the compression and beef up internals, but lower compression pistons aren't really available and I'm definitely not going to have one made. I basically just want to push a stock (updated) motor and see the limits. Boosted yfz450's are running 20lbs reliably on all stock motor. Crazy, but if the yfz can do it I'm determined to prove a Cannondale can too!
Dave has been doing a mod to the oil pump to help balance oil all the oil psi. If you look at Cdale dyno runs there all over the place. Tho I dint think oil psi is very important in a roller bearing motor but it cant hurt the turbo and I'm sure with psi comes oil volume as well.
I've been out the injector game for a wile, but theres tons of info online on what will work. If I remember right tho the 29lbs injectors will support 80hp to 100hp I think? We use a Pico style injector as you have already found. Sometimes you can get Harley injectors cheaper on Ebay there 29lbs also if I remember right?
I'm not 100% sure on how to do the oiling system? I think jinx44 is using a separate oiling system? I keep waiting for that sucker "aka Jinx44" to post some pic's LOL.
I've heard that both Yamaha and Honda's,more so Yamaha's don't really live long past 80hp? Just a guess tho but I'd think 10 to 12psi would get you 80hp?
I've been out the injector game for a wile, but theres tons of info online on what will work. If I remember right tho the 29lbs injectors will support 80hp to 100hp I think? We use a Pico style injector as you have already found. Sometimes you can get Harley injectors cheaper on Ebay there 29lbs also if I remember right?
I'm not 100% sure on how to do the oiling system? I think jinx44 is using a separate oiling system? I keep waiting for that sucker "aka Jinx44" to post some pic's LOL.
I've heard that both Yamaha and Honda's,more so Yamaha's don't really live long past 80hp? Just a guess tho but I'd think 10 to 12psi would get you 80hp?
I'll have to talk to Dave and see about this oil pump mod haha. I'm sure it would definitely help. But I just thought about it, if the pump has enough pressure to pump the oil through the frame it should have enough for an oil feed line to the turbo. Does anyone have a diagram of how the oil actually flows through the frame to the motor and back? I was thinking of just coming from one of the spars to the turbo and back to the motor for the drain. Bug again not totally sure on this.
Also, do you think the water pump is sufficient enough? I had a few thoughts on this, I could just T into both lines for a feed and a return, or tap the radiator itself.
Does anyone know if those edelbrock injectors are the right ones? I was thinking I might as well get the 49 lb/hr ones since they are pretty much the same price. They will fit right into the head? Are the clips the same also? I have no problem with modifying the clips.
Also, do you think the water pump is sufficient enough? I had a few thoughts on this, I could just T into both lines for a feed and a return, or tap the radiator itself.
Does anyone know if those edelbrock injectors are the right ones? I was thinking I might as well get the 49 lb/hr ones since they are pretty much the same price. They will fit right into the head? Are the clips the same also? I have no problem with modifying the clips.
The edelbrock will work but yes you will have to drill a new hole into the hold down clip, there a shorter injector so you may also have to shorten the fuel hose between the 2 injectors. I think the problem with going with an injector that is to big is that for what little time the injector is open at like idle it will give to much fuel.
I'm sure the water pump pumps enough but the best way to plum it I'm not sure of.
I'm sure the water pump pumps enough but the best way to plum it I'm not sure of.
"Plus I am moving to Vegas in a few months and I need a strong dune machine haha"
i moved out here to vegas about a year back. i've yet to see another dale, let alone a boosted one..... we've got dumont, amargosa, and sand hollow dunes all about 1 1/2 hrs away. we also got our local dunes "Apex" that is 15mins from anywhere in vegas. Great place to just go and play. either way look me up when you move out here, im always down to ride....
Kevin
i moved out here to vegas about a year back. i've yet to see another dale, let alone a boosted one..... we've got dumont, amargosa, and sand hollow dunes all about 1 1/2 hrs away. we also got our local dunes "Apex" that is 15mins from anywhere in vegas. Great place to just go and play. either way look me up when you move out here, im always down to ride....
Kevin
QUOTE (kevin444 @ Dec 20 2009, 03:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
"Plus I am moving to Vegas in a few months and I need a strong dune machine haha"
i moved out here to vegas about a year back. i've yet to see another dale, let alone a boosted one..... we've got dumont, amargosa, and sand hollow dunes all about 1 1/2 hrs away. we also got our local dunes "Apex" that is 15mins from anywhere in vegas. Great place to just go and play. either way look me up when you move out here, im always down to ride....
Kevin
i moved out here to vegas about a year back. i've yet to see another dale, let alone a boosted one..... we've got dumont, amargosa, and sand hollow dunes all about 1 1/2 hrs away. we also got our local dunes "Apex" that is 15mins from anywhere in vegas. Great place to just go and play. either way look me up when you move out here, im always down to ride....
Kevin
Nice, I'm actually here right now at my sisters in Southern Highlands. But we are going to Utah tomorrow for work. Have you ever been to ATV Cycle Sports on Craig road? Pike the owner was a big Cannondale dealer back in the day and they still deal with them although there aren't many in Vegas. Hes got a bunch of parts and a sick show Cannondale hanging from the ceiling, pretty neat little shop. Where do you live in Vegas?
yeah i've spoken with pike and did see his flawless dale. im currently off of summerlin pkwy and buffalo; but hopefully soon "under contract" purchasing a home way north on jones and basically the mountain.....im a little older "31" and have a wife and a 10 yr old daughter, but im always down to ride. i ride with a few neighborhood friends; 400ex, few tricked out banshees and a few others. we just hit dumont for the first time for thanksgiving and was blown away with the dunes and the overall scene. comp hill at night was sweet. let me know if you ever wana meet up; possibly apex or my garage!