Before it begin - The Jesus Tomb March 4th

[Smitty911]

Am I going to be excommunicated? Forced to sell my Cannondale and buy a yucky Yamaha (No offense to Yamaha owners used as an example only.) LOL

Smitty

[harleypitbull1]

QUOTE (cannondale27 @ Mar 5 2007, 04:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think Smitty summed it up in last thread.He doesnt want to see anyone he knows in wrong line at the end.Sure Harley thinks same and so do I and everyone else here.We all are very passionate of our beliefs in everything we do religion or not.That is good right or wrong.Will find out in end hopefully all of us will be in right line.In meantime I am getting on sled and grabbing throttle until I see god or am thankful he watched over me see ya all

Sounds great c 27 hammer down. I hope to not have to see God for a long time but I want to be ready to see him if it were to happen while I am typing this. I do not know what the future holds but I know who holds the future.

[UpsMan]

Here is what I believe. When you die, they shovel dirt on top of you and that is the end. No heaven, no ****, nothing in between. I don't go to church, 'just in case'. I don't care if you go to church or not. I believe there are a lot of things that happen that we don't understand yet. I don't attribute these things to God or miracles. I believe alien life is not only possible, it is probable. I love the way South Park makes fun of all religions. Yes, the cartoon.

[Psychosis]

QUOTE (UpsMan @ Mar 5 2007, 09:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Here is what I believe. When you die, they shovel dirt on top of you and that is the end. No heaven, no ****, nothing in between. I don't go to church, 'just in case'. I don't care if you go to church or not. I believe there are a lot of things that happen that we don't understand yet. I don't attribute these things to God or miracles. I believe alien life is not only possible, it is probable. I love the way South Park makes fun of all religions. Yes, the cartoon.

Well said; that's all I've gotta say.

[Smitty911]

QUOTE (UpsMan @ Mar 6 2007, 04:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Here is what I believe. When you die, they shovel dirt on top of you and that is the end. No heaven, no ****, nothing in between. I don't go to church, 'just in case'. I don't care if you go to church or not. I believe there are a lot of things that happen that we don't understand yet. I don't attribute these things to God or miracles. I believe alien life is not only possible, it is probable. I love the way South Park makes fun of all religions. Yes, the cartoon.

Upsman and Psychosis,

They shovel dirt on you. True enough. I of course will disagree about the No heaven, No ****, but as adults we can agree to disagree. I don't go to church, "just in case" either so we agree there.

There are millions of things we don't understand. My wife sometimes would be an good example. LOL

I was asked why I didn't believe in Alien Life. Why do you believe it is probable? This would assume of course that abogenisis(sp) not only happened once here on Earth, but also elsewhere in the galaxy. It would also assume a Naturalist Point of View. That life is an accident of chemical and random mutations. We are only responding to chemical changes in our brains that make us act and think.

Therefore Mother Theresa and Adolf Hitler where both good. Because they both did what they felt was right.

Therefore we shouldn't take care of those people who do not add to the collective strength of the Human race. ex. any handicapped person, children with birth defects, disabled people, etc.

We should not worry about child molesters, murderers, thefts, etc. they are only doing what they feel is right for them.

Therefore what is the purpose of life?

Dude, I'm not trying to tweak you, I also enjoy "South Park", some of them anyway. The movie was a little over the top. I don't want to put words in your mouth, but this is what I'm getting. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I will admit my mistakes. Just wondering about the "why" now that you shared the "what".

Maybe, just maybe the Bible holds the answers to those questions. I know they answered them for me. That Mother Theresa and Adolf Hitler are polar opposites. We should take care of those less able to support themselves. That we define what criminal actions are and there consequences.

Later

Smitty

[Smitty911]

QUOTE (peterock @ Mar 5 2007, 09:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Here we go..................my opinion.

Yes I'm christian and believe in the christian faith. However, as with any religious book, they were written by man. That obviously means it is possible for facts to be missinterpretted and change over time. Also, translations from one language to another are never exact. Plus then every denomination has their own interpretation.

Know what I like the most.........going to church on Sunday and listening to someone for the first 10 minutes talk about how much money they need and how much we should be giving to the church.

I believe there is something greater out there and i don't believe I need to sit in church on Sunday in order for myself to be "saved".

You all want to watch some educational movies on religion.........Rent Dogma with Jay and Silent Bob

Peterock,

Thanks for joining the conversation.

quick question - It is my current understanding that Christian churches teach and believe that the Bible is the inspired Word of God, written down by men. Several non-Christian religions teach that the Bible has changed. (Ex Islam, Mormon, Jehovah Witnesses, etc.)

Which parts of the Bible are wrong in your opinion?

Greek, Hebrew, and Arabic languages were used in the Bible. Has there been or is there currently a more expressive language that could/should have been used?

Christian Denominations don't change over the Majors: God exist, Trinity, Jesus is God in the flesh, sin, Salvation, etc. They do however disagree on some minor points: Organ music, One Cup for communion, Dress code, etc.

If the church you attend spends that much time on money, I would find a new church.

What is greater out there?

What do you need to do to be "saved"?

I liked Chris Rock in Dogma. The 13 apostle, I sprayed Dr. Pepper on that one. LOL

I look forward to your answers. FYI this all should be taken as a light conversation, like a post on which is faster stock vs stock 400ex or Banshee.

Smitty

[UpsMan]

I don't know smitty. You read an aweful lot into my post. Where do you get off making such wild insinuations about Hitler and Mother Teresa based on my lack of religion? Anyone with an IQ of 10 can look at these two individuals and decide for themselves that one is bad and one is good. I don't need God to tell me so. Did you read the bible and then figure out the difference between these two? If so, you need lots of help. Your arrogance is astonishing. You are once again saying that people that don't read the bible and agree with you are bad. You are saying that unless we are like you, we can't make distinctions between good and bad. I don't need the bible to tell me having sex with children is wrong. I don't need the bible to tell me that killing someone is wrong. I don't need the bible to tell me that you are an arrogant ***. Some of these things just are what they are.

Are you telling me that without the bible, you wouldn't know the difference between right and wrong? Maybe my wife is right. Religion is for feeble minded people. Sheep? I don't necessarily agree with that, but you are making the case for her.

[Smitty911]

QUOTE (UpsMan @ Mar 6 2007, 12:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't know smitty. You read an aweful lot into my post. Where do you get off making such wild insinuations about Hitler and Mother Teresa based on my lack of religion? Anyone with an IQ of 10 can look at these two individuals and decide for themselves that one is bad and one is good. I don't need God to tell me so. Did you read the bible and then figure out the difference between these two? If so, you need lots of help. Your arrogance is astonishing. You are once again saying that people that don't read the bible and agree with you are bad. You are saying that unless we are like you, we can't make distinctions between good and bad. I don't need the bible to tell me having sex with children is wrong. I don't need the bible to tell me that killing someone is wrong. I don't need the bible to tell me that you are an arrogant ***. Some of these things just are what they are.

Are you telling me that without the bible, you wouldn't know the difference between right and wrong? Maybe my wife is right. Religion is for feeble minded people. Sheep? I don't necessarily agree with that, but you are making the case for her.

Upsman,

Actually I don't make the association that you may be thinking. I believe I have only given general beliefs of some of the differing world view, some of which I disagree with, I've been down all these lines in my personal life. Think of this as you have a better answer to life than what I have. By asking questions we may find it.

Before I bought my Cannondale I had a 400ex, (hard to be arrogant on one of them,LOL) I asked alot of questions did some research and purchased it. This is the same questions, I may be on the Honda now and you have the Cannnondale. If your right, I'll buy it. With the quad world or religous world, before I switch I have to have the FACTS.

You said you believed in the Probability of Alien life, you don't believe in God. Therefore Darwin is right, we are an accident and a Naturalist view point is what is left. Is there an option that I didn't mention? Have I misunderstood you?

A Naturalist point of view is the above. That there is no moral right or wrong. That Both of those concepts are correct. It's not me, it the natural conclusion of Naturalisem.

In effect There can be no Moral Standard for what is right or wrong. Without a ruler in which to make judgements, how can anything be either. My standard is the Bible, you said yours was in effect that you didn't care as long as you were left alone. Below is a link on Naturalism, I have cut and pasted the information, so people can see I don't make this stuff up as I go.

Naturalism website
Guiding Philosophy

Based on knowledge derived from the physical and social sciences, the world view that is naturalism holds that human beings are fully included in nature. Science tells us that we are connected and united, in each and every aspect of our being, to the natural world. There is, under naturalism, nothing supernatural about us which places us above or beyond nature, but this is something to be celebrated, not feared. Practically speaking, naturalism holds that an individual????????s development and behavior are entirely the result of prior and surrounding conditions, both genetic and environmental. Naturalism, therefore, denies that persons have contra-causal free will - that something within them is capable of acting as a first cause. But this isn't a problem, it's just how things are. See A Guide to Naturalism, Tenets of Naturalism, Consequences of Naturalism, and Resources.

The above statment is that we are animals, no better no worse. We act because of chemicials and enviroment. I also mentionedd this before.

Responsibility and morality: From a naturalistic perspective, behavior arises out of the interaction between individuals and their environment, not from a freely willing self that produces behavior independently of causal connections. Therefore individuals don????????t bear ultimate originative responsibility for their actions, in the sense of being their first cause. Given the circumstances both inside and outside the body, they couldn????????t have done other than what they did. Nevertheless, we still hold individuals responsible, in the sense of applying rewards and sanctions, so that their behavior stays more or less within the range of what we deem acceptable. This is, partially, how people learn to act ethically. Naturalism doesn????????t undermine the need or possibility of responsibility and morality, but it places them within the world as understood by science. However, naturalism does call into question the basis for retributive attitudes, namely the idea that individuals could have done otherwise in the situation in which their behavior arose and so deeply deserve punishment.

Therefore Mother Theresa and Hitler both only reacted to the enviroment in which they were living in. They question "the basis for retributive attitudes"

I also didn't read the Bible to know that those things are wrong. I don't make these things up. I'm not trying to be arrogant or know it all or any such thing. People say that religion is for "Sheep" with out looking at the end result of their thought process. Some people are fine with just putting there heads down and eating grass. I question my beliefs, I look for support for it, I'm looking for answers.

You may be thinking that I'm an arrogant *** again, like you said above. Man I'm just asking questions and they run to what could be a dead end. Hopefully, we are both thinking about it. I ask questions to get clarity, I make statements to find bounderies. Thats it the chips fall where they fall.

Good talking with you.

Smitty

[harleypitbull1]

QUOTE (UpsMan @ Mar 5 2007, 10:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Here is what I believe. When you die, they shovel dirt on top of you and that is the end. No heaven, no ****, nothing in between. I don't go to church, 'just in case'. I don't care if you go to church or not. I believe there are a lot of things that happen that we don't understand yet. I don't attribute these things to God or miracles. I believe alien life is not only possible, it is probable. I love the way South Park makes fun of all religions. Yes, the cartoon.

Lets say this is what happens. No heaven, no nothing. I could probably be persuaded to believe this but we had to come from some where and only one way makes sense to me. Which do you guys believe is how we became to exist on this earth.

1. Big bang theory....... boom and here we are
2. Theory of evolution........ we evolved from a single celled organism
3. God created the universe and every living thing in it


Only one of these seems possible to me, what do you guys think?

[aroracer72]

True Christianity is taught as learn the bible, and attempt to follow its guidelines to the best of your ability, and when you mess up/sin ask for forgiveness and try to not commit it again.

In simpler terms be the best person you can, and attempt to do all you can for ones you love or can help, and you will be rewarded with a afterlife in heaven. Live with a pure and honest heart and God will reward you.
This is what i believe.


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And as for the theories of how mankind/all life was created.......all the scientific explanations leave one important detail out.......WERE DID THE FIRST MATTER/CELL COME FROM TO START THE CHAIN OF EVENTS??!!!! And dont give me the "It was just there" explanation, NOTHING is just there. Someone or something put it there. Then your gonna say aliens put it there, well were did the aliens come from???.....see no longer can science explain this thats were God comes in, or some other superior being/power.
Chad