Non Factory Update List

Message

cannondale27 · #11 Post by **cannondale27** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 7:05 am

It used to be that when someone posted a problem or a fix that was it. Now we have to worry about whos toes we step on, what shop sells what, if somebody else has a similar thing in the works, calling names and now scaring off potential buyers! Give me a break! It's Wistech's post it is his opinion if not agreeable just list what you think. Jay your Speed was one of the best made and you know it. It is also very rare combination of parts. Wistech I assume is looking for something to last longer than his Speed which I believe lasted over 300hrs without anything other than reloctited bolts. Starting a list like this gets wheels a turning(brainstorming)it is a good thing even if it is only a thought. To be technically accurate maybe Wistech should have said if you want your motor to last over 100hrs these are some vital updates?All our quads other than ATKs are getting up there in hours. Doesn't matter how they are ridden. Ride time will take its toll. It is kind of sad when I see the day when making a post involves more time in thinking about how to word a post to not offend anyone than typing a solution. Notice he did say to get the most.

Wistech said

QUOTE

to get the most out of the Cannondale /ATK system.

wistech · #12 Post by **wistech** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 9:18 am

Thats an interesting reply Jay. My post was actually aimed at potential buyers and those totally oblivious to what they would be getting themselves into with a purchase. These updates are my opinion and I would like to think that since I have literally been there and done that with just about every failure on the list I would say its an educated one.
I feel I would be doing a disservice to say to someone that you could locktite your cartridge plate bolts and ride worry free .Just ingnore all that mumbo jumbo about weak swingarm pivot bolts ,flawed crank bearings,floating valves ect. It will never happen to you.
There is no way I will differentiate between racers and trail riden quads . Trail quads may be more prone to problems due to the shear number of hours they can rack up and who knows when they get thier oil changed.
You know its not like all these updates cost a fortune either. For the do it yourselfer like me I know I can update a stock engine for less than $200 in parts. I think anyone who owns a race bred quad should be fully capable of doing virtually all the work themselves or be prepared to pay the costs of having someone else do it for them.
It has been said that I only tend to just paint a picture of gloom and doom . In my mind letting everyone know all the issues and what to do to remedy them is a positive thing. These machines have become a passion of mine and I want them to be all they can be. :head:

Jaybr · #13 Post by **Jaybr** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 1:10 pm

Whoa guys, I wasn't trying to start a war here, and you should both no by now I'm not about hiding the truth.

I also know my Speed is a rarity, but they do exist. How many quads out there are running fine without all of the updates listed? Probably way more than have the updates. How many ATK motors are running fine, and how many ATK cranks have been installed and are running fine? I don't believe ATK updates the rod bearing?

My point is that although all of the updates on the list are good ones, I wouldn't necessarily call them vital.

I guess my concern is in the use of the term vital. To me this means without the updates the motor will die. Well all the motor's will eventually die, with or without the updates.

So if a potential buyer comes in here and sees this list, he goes away thinking that soon as he buys a Cannondale he MUST to do a complete teardown on the motor before he rides it.

I don't agree, and I'm entitled to my opinion too.

Now if your post was "building a bulletproof motor" or something like that, I'd be fine with it.

wistech · #14 Post by **wistech** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 2:19 pm

Hmmm ,I guess if its a wording thing then my personal list will still change little.

cannondale27 · #15 Post by **cannondale27** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 5:12 pm

Here is the problem with trying to classify categories of riders.
Everyone everywhere rides different and for different periods of time.
I know that Wistech rode every weekend there was ice or trails were opened this winter yet he is a trail rider.Some areas trails are tight and quad rarely sees high rpm.Around here it is WFO Alot.Now racing wise there are also variables such as mud,jumps and also high rpm.Here is my equation

RPM/Time=Failure

In other words if the motor is being run over time it will break.
For some figures of at what rate.I am a C-class racer/trailrider who will ride twice a week my 3 stock motors all from factory and never touched by me all had mechanical failures within one season of install never made a full season.When I race I do it for fun and am not even close to the level of a B rider.Every failure of my motors I have seen duplicated many times.The factory had a great idea but was not any good at quality control in their motors.That is a fact.

levi550 · #16 Post by **levi550** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 5:30 pm

Kum ba yah, my Lord, kum ba yah!
Kum ba yah, my Lord, kum ba yah!
Kum ba yah, my Lord, kum ba yah!
O Lord, kum ba yah!

USAMoto00 · #17 Post by **USAMoto00** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 10:44 pm

lol It's bad when everything is getting "Political", what the **** happened to having fun? I have an '03 motor that is starting the 3rd season of torture with no problems other than a tranny filter getting sucked in the tranny. Took it apart, fixed it and started racing again. I ride whenever possible and mostly on MX tracks. What does this have to do with the post? I too have a good factory motor, and thank you very much for the list wistech! lol I have added a motor mount update and the electrical boot on the fuel pump. I would say that it is still a stock motor. lol Now let's all go ride rather than scwabble about the wording of things huh? And by the way, ATK's fail too. Ask Chris Workman who is still waiting for them to warranty a known problem part.:mad:

iceracer17 · #18 Post by **iceracer17** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 1:02 am

I was going to stay out of this but.I agree 100% with wistech.If people ask what the problems are i tell them,and also add they're a good quad as long as you take care of them.And there many people to help if a problem comes up including myself.

Anyways, you can chalk up a ATK/Falicon crank to the failure list also with approx. 50hrs on it.

Derno24 · #19 Post by **Derno24** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 1:50 am

QUOTE

Originally posted by iceracer17
Anyways, you can chalk up a ATK/Falicon crank to the failure list also with approx. 50hrs on it.

Which is it? Can't be both so I am guessing an ATK crank bit it. This is what I am talking about.

I agree with Jay no one is saying you can or can not say what you want. I am just looking at it from a different perspective. I see people working on these machines and wanting to be important to the Cannondale community well guys you are very important. It isn't always necessary to flex this knowledge on people just because you can.

I even allowed people outside of myself to read the post and they all agreed that after reading the post they wouldn't even look at a Cannondale. I as a rider and I am sure Jay as one too values what your opinions are.

As for the type of riders I agree with jay again. We all classify them different ways. What Jay should have termed them are people who are occassional riders and people who will beat on their machines.

I am a firm believer that alot of the Cannondales still out there with original parts are that way due to good maintenance. We should just be preaching that like we used to.

iceracer17 · #20 Post by **iceracer17** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 2:16 am

Why can't it be? This is what i was told by Atk's parts people.

I was told by ATK when i purchased the crank(probably one of the first they offered back in oct. or nov. that it was "balanced" by falicon.If that's not the case then i was misled by ATK.
Hmmmm