QUOTE (Mjollnir @ Mar 14 2007, 02:22 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hey, I voted for the guy. Too bad he turned out to be a big liberal. 
I guess it's a big "T" vs. a little "t", so maybe we can both have it. We'll call your version Truth, and science's version truth.
What else do we (I) need? (That's a rhetorical question.) Radiometric dating is extremely reliable. There is also fossil records, geological strata, etc. I also did some research as to the missing transitory fossils you mentioned, and found that many exist. Hmm.
Of course, there is also evidence that Native Americans have been on this continent for 30,000 years. That's some disparity between the biblical timeline.
I did not research this, but I will hazard a guess and say yes, many leading scientists agree. I also appreciate you calling me a leading scientist, but that's not actually true, I'm just good at googling. I'm a Googler.
Agreed, the preponderance of evidence should sway people, but some are swayed by faith, not evidence. Alternatively stated, they are swayed by evidence provided by faith.
OJ was found innocent by a jury of his peers. That's how our system works. Flawed, perhaps, but that's how it works. "Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer," in the famous words of William Blackstone.
Mmm, I love Red Herring. Breaded and fried is my favorite. Especially good with petitio principii on the side. Delish. (Read this as: " I love to be patronized.")
Marc
I guess it's a big "T" vs. a little "t", so maybe we can both have it. We'll call your version Truth, and science's version truth.
What else do we (I) need? (That's a rhetorical question.) Radiometric dating is extremely reliable. There is also fossil records, geological strata, etc. I also did some research as to the missing transitory fossils you mentioned, and found that many exist. Hmm.
Of course, there is also evidence that Native Americans have been on this continent for 30,000 years. That's some disparity between the biblical timeline.
I did not research this, but I will hazard a guess and say yes, many leading scientists agree. I also appreciate you calling me a leading scientist, but that's not actually true, I'm just good at googling. I'm a Googler.
Agreed, the preponderance of evidence should sway people, but some are swayed by faith, not evidence. Alternatively stated, they are swayed by evidence provided by faith.
OJ was found innocent by a jury of his peers. That's how our system works. Flawed, perhaps, but that's how it works. "Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer," in the famous words of William Blackstone.
Mmm, I love Red Herring. Breaded and fried is my favorite. Especially good with petitio principii on the side. Delish. (Read this as: " I love to be patronized.")
Marc
Well we both got taken in by that one than. LOL Better luck for us in the '08
Truth can sometimes be used as a subjective measurement. Unfortunately when Jesus (who nobody denies) spoke "I am the way, the truth and the light, no man comes to the father except though me." There are only three possible solutions.
1. He was who he said he was. With proof of Old Testament Prophecy supporting him, with the miracle's he performed, and his ascension after death.
2. He was a nut case. Not supported by Eyewitnesses at the time. He didn't talk like he was nuts.
3. Delusional. His teaching ARE sound advice for anyone. He died thinking he was something other than what he claimed to be.
Only Number 1. fits the rational explanation.
Radiometric dating - Once again how hot where the samples when created? I used to do Radiography using IR 192 half life of 1 1/2 years. You could charge them up higher depending on how Hot you wanted the sample. UPS always got nervous though. Fossil - I believe they found a T-Rex with Red Blood cells not to long ago. hmmm Stratified layers of Earth - Mt. St. Helen proved that you could have Millions of years of Stratified layers build up in a couple of days. Hmmmmm Transitional Fossils - this one of course is a lot tougher due to my lack of education in the classification of animals. I read TalkOrigin.org on occasion and monkeys are still monkeys, birds are still birds, Reptiles are still of course reptile. For a TRUE Transitional species to exist in the fossil record a couple of conditions I think would have to exist.
1. Half formed limbs, Half formed lungs, half formed etc. none of these do. They show a nostril moved back on a reptile and claim it is transitioning form mammal to reptile. Or X into a whale, pick an example and show the time line and all the intermediary steps. Than once you have something show how each of those steps would increase the chance of survival of that species. Think about a reptile migration into an Avian species. What would need to change. Some would be; internal heat generation, lung design change, long quills, rotated hips, hollow bones, etc. Now in what order did they occur? With out a flight system in place at the time it was born how would quills benefit a reptile dragging them around, wouldn't it be slower and easier to eat? Uummm, dinner and a tooth pick. LOL (I crack myself up) Than of course is the problem with enough mutations in the gene/breeding pool to continue the trait until a flight system was born.
I just read some of the Encyclopedia Smithsonian - They claim earliest is around 11,500 years. That about right in the Biblical time line. Hhmmm
William Blackstone although spoken well doesn't play well in reality - ex. We live in a free country, but somebody paid for it. Someone has to be willing to accept that for the greater good, than one man my be innocent, out of the thousands at this point, that are guilty. People get away with a lot not based on facts but of loopholes and logical sounding debates. I normally lose in debates due to my poor debate skills, not on the facts presented. I don't study debate tactics, because at the end of the day, people will freely choose what they want to believe. I choose to believe the Bible due the the Facts and explanations that are found there. Some will debate the credibility of the Bible and discount the facts to secure their beliefs. I used to do this as well. Overwhelming evidence and a Heart that wanted to "Know" changed me.
Red Herring is good? subjective taste buds, nice. I like boiled peanuts, slugs in a bag my boss called them. LOL
Google can be helpful sometimes, as we only find what we look for. The Bible say "you will find me when you look for me with all your heart." I looked, I found, I was changed by what I found. I can only hope and pray that one day, we will look and find. The Bible speaks clearly about this. Facts are fun and the debate grows with point and counter point. When I looked into the mirror, I saw the kind of person I was, the Truth was not pretty. I knew that I had broken all of Gods 10 Commandments, most several time, and deserved to be separated from him. By an honest act of repentance and asking Jesus to be my Lord, I was cleaned and forgiven instantly. I cannot fully explain the feelings the swept though me at that instant. Suffice to say I had never felt cleaner and loved in my whole life.
We have spoken about the world we know, the theoretical ones, we have not actually discussed the spiritual one. Man exist as three Body, mind and spirit. Body - Evolution and Creation Mind - evidence and argument. Which I believe leaves the Spirit wide open. But first you would have to agree that there is a Spirit - Life Force- etc. If you don't agree to that belief than unfortunately, we will be stuck in a continues circle of debate. Hopefully that isn't the case and we can progress to those matters.
I have enjoyed the talk, always fun finding out what people are thinking. Wrong or not. LOL
This of course should be taken with as much sarcasm as possible. Smitty