Atheism????

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jwheat
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#121 Post by jwheat »

QUOTE (Smitty911 @ Feb 6 2007, 08:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
JWHEAT and Cannondale27,

Have I responded to each of your questions? Do you accept to reject they explanations or do you need more information? I'm only addressing you two because you have been the most active.

Thanks

Smitty



Smitty, I neither accept or reject most of your answers. I find them inconclusive since the only source for your information is the Bible. Since the Bible is(and always will be) written and interpreted by men, then it will always be open to doubt and suspicion. I don't need to hear that it is the written word of God, because God didn't write it. I do reject your answers to my question about what modern miracles have occurred. Those events are very open to interpretation. The miracles that Moses performed in God's name were to the point and stated. The same with the miracles that Jesus performed. To say that Isreal being a state is a miracle would be a stretch by any interpretation. A miracle (to me) is something that can't be performed by man.

Smitty911
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#122 Post by Smitty911 »

QUOTE (cannondale27 @ Feb 7 2007, 02:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think you are paranoid and take the written word too literally. Only way to find out who is right is when we both meet our maker biggrin.gif Other than that I think you are a great guy who I would be proud to call my friend.



'27,

Paranoids do have enemies. dry.gif I just don't have any.

Happyboy said the same thing in regards to being taken Literal, which parts are not literal, outside of the poetry and parables?

Hopefully we'll get to meet before than, Glamis is only a couple of thousand miles away.

Thanks for the compliment.

Smitty

QUOTE (J. Delaney @ Feb 7 2007, 03:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yes they did. Read 1st Kings. However, this was approx. 1200 years after Abraham.



Your right they did, I forgot. I was thinking about the context of Hebrews in the beginning worshiping the pagan gods. wacko.gif

Smitty

Smitty911
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#123 Post by Smitty911 »

QUOTE (jwheat @ Feb 7 2007, 03:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Smitty, I neither accept or reject most of your answers. I find them inconclusive since the only source for your information is the Bible. Since the Bible is(and always will be) written and interpreted by men, then it will always be open to doubt and suspicion. I don't need to hear that it is the written word of God, because God didn't write it. I do reject your answers to my question about what modern miracles have occurred. Those events are very open to interpretation. The miracles that Moses performed in God's name were to the point and stated. The same with the miracles that Jesus performed. To say that Isreal being a state is a miracle would be a stretch by any interpretation. A miracle (to me) is something that can't be performed by man.


Jwheat,

Here is were being an adult has some advantage. We can agree to disagree. smile.gif

Sources outside of the Bible (Secular) have confirmed lots of the information in the Bible. ex. Exodus - Pharaoh ordered the Hebrew slaves to build brick, but now they had to collect their own straw and the quota was not changed to reflect the increase work. So bricks with less straw in them would be the result.

Two separate archaeologist (in 1883 and 1908) found at Pithom (a city that had been in Northern Egypt), the lower courses of brick filled with straw, the middle courses with less straw, and the upper bricks with no straw, pure clay. These were built during the reign of Amenhotp II, who was Pharaoh at the time of the Exodus, by Hebrew slaves. This in formation was obtained by archaeologist who found old Egyptian scrolls.

So far secular and religious archaeologist has confirmed the events of the Bible, not disproved it.

So you don't believe that God can inspire man to do great works. OK, I can accept that. After looking at the Vatican ceiling, paintings, sculpture, poetry, etc. You don't think that some of those men were inspired by God to do those beautiful pieces of art? If God can inspire man to do such great works, how hard would it be for them to take a little dictation?

As far as Israel - I guess I should have been more detailed in why I think it is a miracle. Lots of Bible prophecy written hundreds of years before the event, tells us what will happen to the Hebrew. They will be scatted across the earth, they will be persecuted, they will again occupy the land God gave them, they be gathered back into the land. All of these has happened, next on the time line is that a 7 year peace treaty will be signed, they will rebuild the Temple (They currently have plans to rebuild the temple, instruments for the temple have been made Temple Information )

I agree Miracles could not be performed by man, so, after WWII, and due the Holocaust, the Jews were given the land back. After roughly 1900 years, Why would men give the Jews their homeland back after 1900 years of trying to wipe them out?

The Bible records Jesus saying that a wicked and corrupt generation seeks signs and wonders, but none will be given, except the sign of Jonah. He stayed in a fish/whale for three days. Jesus being in the grave three days was the last BIG miracle.

We didn't believe that one so why keep doing them? What kind of miracle would you like? I guess I could have used the personal changes in my life and thousands of others as miracles. The events of my In-laws death - not so much a miracle more of proof of promises kept to me, my wife, friends, family, etc.

Thank for the responses. Feel free to tell me to go pound sand at any given time. I will be in Glamis next Sat and will have the chance.

Smitty

cannondale27
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#124 Post by cannondale27 »

QUOTE
As far as Israel - I guess I should have been more detailed in why I think it is a miracle. Lots of Bible prophecy written hundreds of years before the event, tells us what will happen to the Hebrew. They will be scatted across the earth, they will be persecuted, they will again occupy the land God gave them, they be gathered back into the land. All of these has happened, next on the time line is that a 7 year peace treaty will be signed, they will rebuild the Temple (They currently have plans to rebuild the temple, instruments for the temple have been made Temple Information )


Isnt a Mosque located on the top of Temple mount?Smitty how many generations before us have thought this was it?Not saying you are wrong.Just saying that the Bible was always meant by God and Man to be a guide not a blindfold.That is why God gave us a brain and free will.

QUOTE
Thank for the responses. Feel free to tell me to go pound sand at any given time. I will be in Glamis next Sat and will have the chance.


laugh.gif Lucky bugger good one!

Smitty911
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#125 Post by Smitty911 »

QUOTE (cannondale27 @ Feb 7 2007, 08:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Isnt a Mosque located on the top of Temple mount?Smitty how many generations before us have thought this was it?Not saying you are wrong.Just saying that the Bible was always meant by God and Man to be a guide not a blindfold.That is why God gave us a brain and free will.
laugh.gif Lucky bugger good one!



The Mosque (Dome of the Rock) was built several hundred years after the fact. That is also a point of contention between the Muslim and Jews. When the Muslim over took the holy land the first time, they made that claim that the area is where Mohommed ascended to heaven. So they claim the area. They are also distroying thousands of years of Hewbrew and Christian history in the area.

Your right The Bible is Gods Guide for us. How would someone use it as a "Blindfold" could you elaborate.

Thanks

Smitty

Glamis, A Duning Paradise, where Horse Power reigns, and the Big Dogs roam free.

cannondale27
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#126 Post by cannondale27 »

Well even the word "Holy Land" is kind of a contradiction.Is not land a object that man covets?Yet this term implies that the land is something we should pay homage too?Couple things in Bible and even the Commandment that discourage that.

Blindfold=When put on all you see is the blindfold or darkness.If all you see in Bible is what is written it is same effect.

Smitty911
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#127 Post by Smitty911 »

QUOTE (cannondale27 @ Feb 7 2007, 05:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Well even the word "Holy Land" is kind of a contradiction.Is not land a object that man covets?Yet this term implies that the land is something we should pay homage too?Couple things in Bible and even the Commandment that discourage that.

Blindfold=When put on all you see is the blindfold or darkness.If all you see in Bible is what is written it is same effect.


So when Moses had to take off his sandles on Mt. Sinai because God told him he was standing on "Holy Land" God was wrong?

Anything Coveted is wrong, money, sex, cars, Cannondales, why pick on the land?

I disagree, why pay homage to it?

I agree, but would change it to a filter, all the stuff that floats around out there. Things are looked at though biblicial Glasses. These glasses keep people from believing false doctrines. Ever used Beer Goggles, now that's a filter. EX. If someone tells me they have seen a Ghost. Ok they have seen something, lets us our Biblicial Filter and examine what it might be. The Bible says to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. So it can't be a person who lived. The Bible says that there are fallen angles that can give the illusion of being people, and that they might have some limited information on that person.


HHmmmm, my perception would be Ghost are fallen angles.

Care for another - How about Fortune tellers (palm readers, taroh cards, etc.) The bible says that you can have no contact with those that has died. These people claim that they can talk to the dead. See above Biblical statement. Who would they be talking to possible? fallen angles?

I used to believe in all that stuff, carried stones in my pocket with "good" energy, god is in everything and everything is god, universal power source, karma, Aliens, etc. I used to live in fear of the unknown. I have already walked down those roads, and they are dead ends. Than I read the Bible and believed like you do. That can't be true, "I refuse to believe that" God is X or X or X. The more I have read the Bible and studied it, the less I can make those claims.

'27,

It appears to me, and I could be wrong, but you take the worst posssible spin route on almost everything presented. God called the land holy, see your above statement. You said the Bible is taken to literally so you don't believe it. Try an experament - Read some of the Bible and take it literally and see if more of it doesn't make sense and need A LOT of additional understanding. It's an easy book to read if you just give it the benifit of the doubt. biggrin.gif


Smitty

cannondale27
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#128 Post by cannondale27 »

God said that to confirm Moses respect for him.Doesnt necesarily apply to everyone thousands of years later.It is just ground and a material thing.Is it sacralidge to tear down or sell a Church or other worship place as long as the people in it are okay with it?Of course not it is the people that matter.Only reason "Holy Land" is important is from a historic view and the feelings that brings out of the people there .When it becomes a priority it cant be good.

Smitty911
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#129 Post by Smitty911 »

QUOTE (cannondale27 @ Feb 7 2007, 06:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
God said that to confirm Moses respect for him.Doesnt necesarily apply to everyone thousands of years later.It is just ground and a material thing.Is it sacralidge to tear down or sell a Church or other worship place as long as the people in it are okay with it?Of course not it is the people that matter.Only reason "Holy Land" is important is from a historic view and the feelings that brings out of the people there .When it becomes a priority it cant be good.



'27,

I think you may be putting your own blinders on cool.gif .. Why would it apply to Moses back than and not now? When did God cancel it out?

Of course it is Ok to tear down churches. Jesus lives in us not in a building.

The feelings like what? To understand the Piority of the Temple mount you will need to read Old Testament Hebrew sacrific laws, when you get done with them let me know, we can discuss them also. ohmy.gif

Smitty

cannondale27
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#130 Post by cannondale27 »

QUOTE (Smitty911 @ Feb 7 2007, 12:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
'27,

I think you may be putting your own blinders on cool.gif .. Why would it apply to Moses back than and not now? When did God cancel it out?

Of course it is Ok to tear down churches. Jesus lives in us not in a building.

The feelings like what? To understand the Piority of the Temple mount you will need to read Old Testament Hebrew sacrific laws, when you get done with them let me know, we can discuss them also. ohmy.gif

Smitty


He must have because he has allowed a Mosque to be built right on top of it.

How can you say Jesus lives in us not a building yet disagree on Holy Land?

Feelings=inspiration to Pray or honor God.That is all the buildings or land or any other object are for.Inspiration.

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