Another company with dale parts!
Maybe I am not clear, but when a vendor is doing us the favor it is awfully hard to say hey drop your prices cause they may not pay that. Now if I had 8 sets of arms to take and have built then I am sure your point would be valid. Again you are talking about a single run on a product. Now if you wanted to get into what A-arms are really worth than you may have a leg to stand on, but when the market price dictates what they are charging then it is hard to understand your logic. I guarantee you these shops don't need our work. So your theory of hey I don't like your pricing and won't pay is just a way of saying don't make arms for us. Just find it funny how everyone is justifying being cheap. Now for one last thing. I have long travel used to think it was no big deal. Guess what wrong it is way nicer than standard travel.
Derno; I completely agree w/you there.
You've gotta pay for what there is why is why I went to a new company that is starting cheap to get work right now. Quality will be told when they arrive though.
As for the LT vs stand statement: There is NO comparison. I raced on standard travel +3's back in my early days and then upgraded to LT Moto setup and then a ZPS version of that. LT makes standard look like a pure joke. You'll ride faster, harder, and w/much more confidence on an LT setup than a standard; matter of fact.
You've gotta pay for what there is why is why I went to a new company that is starting cheap to get work right now. Quality will be told when they arrive though.
As for the LT vs stand statement: There is NO comparison. I raced on standard travel +3's back in my early days and then upgraded to LT Moto setup and then a ZPS version of that. LT makes standard look like a pure joke. You'll ride faster, harder, and w/much more confidence on an LT setup than a standard; matter of fact.
QUOTE (Derno24 @ Jun 23 2007, 04:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
What exactly are you getting at?
People are too cheap so others can't get better parts?
Or somehow you figure to find someone willing to make arms for dirt cheap?
People are too cheap so others can't get better parts?
Or somehow you figure to find someone willing to make arms for dirt cheap?
Sigh, your sarcasm detector must be faulty. I am saying people are too cheap. They WANT new stuff until they see the NEW price. It happens to us on all parts not just arms. Just ask Brad how much I harass him.
I said sarcastically they would have to discount the parts to get a dale owner to buy them. I am just fine with retail, I just don't pay it very often. Then again, if you NEED something bad enough, you will pay for it.
QUOTE (Psychosis @ Jun 24 2007, 08:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Derno; I completely agree w/you there.
You've gotta pay for what there is why is why I went to a new company that is starting cheap to get work right now. Quality will be told when they arrive though.
As for the LT vs stand statement: There is NO comparison. I raced on standard travel +3's back in my early days and then upgraded to LT Moto setup and then a ZPS version of that. LT makes standard look like a pure joke. You'll ride faster, harder, and w/much more confidence on an LT setup than a standard; matter of fact.
You've gotta pay for what there is why is why I went to a new company that is starting cheap to get work right now. Quality will be told when they arrive though.
As for the LT vs stand statement: There is NO comparison. I raced on standard travel +3's back in my early days and then upgraded to LT Moto setup and then a ZPS version of that. LT makes standard look like a pure joke. You'll ride faster, harder, and w/much more confidence on an LT setup than a standard; matter of fact.
I gotta ask, why do you like it better? Don't get me wrong, I have a set of LT myself and love them. But I have ridden a std travel seup that was just as nice. You don't have any more travel out of the arms with LT so you don't get any benifit there. The only true benifit from what I know is they are easy to work on. And well, you get people drooling over them becuase they are LT.
Happy are you talking about physical arm travel or shaft travel? Physical arm travel you are correct you don't gain much if anything, but shaft travel is defintely better. That extra shaft travel helps in many areas. Now I have to add if you have a set of standards that are just as good as LT than something is wrong with your LT set-up. I have both and notice the difference every time. Also, if LT were just a fad than why does every Pro/Proam rider have some sort of LT on their machine? Trust me it works.
Sorry about the lack of sarcasm detection earlier, but I am still scratching my head.
Sorry about the lack of sarcasm detection earlier, but I am still scratching my head.
Derno already answered the questin to me basically Happy. I spent a lot of time setting up a standard front end I had going through different valving, adjustments, non ZPS, ZPS, etc, and though I was happy w/them, once I went to LT I couldn't figure out why I went to all the trouble w/them. When I first got my stock Moto front end that had stock valving and everything, it made the standards feel like crap. Yes, the ones I spent lots of time tuning and felt great, just not the same. I upgraded from there and will be using Fox this season as another upgrade. Leaps and bounds over the last each time.
I can't really explain it any other way than the fact that they're much more plush, seem to carry better into corners, take big jumps better, and make whoops feel much smoother. Plus adjustment in my experiences were easily and more improvement per adjustment.
I can't really explain it any other way than the fact that they're much more plush, seem to carry better into corners, take big jumps better, and make whoops feel much smoother. Plus adjustment in my experiences were easily and more improvement per adjustment.
QUOTE (Derno24 @ Jun 24 2007, 10:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Also, if LT were just a fad than why does every Pro/Proam rider have some sort of LT on their machine? Trust me it works.
This is an easy one to answer. The companies want to sell them. They put the more expensive shocks on the riders quads through sponserships, discounts, etc.... And don't you know it, if I see a pro rider using them then I have to use them. Its the business.
Gabe over on exriders put up a very nice post about the differences in the setups. The result was no difference. You get almost exactly the same shaft travel (little more because of angle) but the larger the angle the worse the shock can perform. The best setup would be the shock straight up and down but thats hard to do. I will see if I can find that post some time.
QUOTE (Happyboy @ Jun 24 2007, 04:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This is an easy one to answer. The companies want to sell them. They put the more expensive shocks on the riders quads through sponserships, discounts, etc.... And don't you know it, if I see a pro rider using them then I have to use them. Its the business.
Gabe over on exriders put up a very nice post about the differences in the setups. The result was no difference. You get almost exactly the same shaft travel (little more because of angle) but the larger the angle the worse the shock can perform. The best setup would be the shock straight up and down but thats hard to do. I will see if I can find that post some time.
Gabe over on exriders put up a very nice post about the differences in the setups. The result was no difference. You get almost exactly the same shaft travel (little more because of angle) but the larger the angle the worse the shock can perform. The best setup would be the shock straight up and down but thats hard to do. I will see if I can find that post some time.
But so many people claim that it IS better. I don't think it's a science...it is a matter whether you like it better or not. If you like the way it rides better, then go LT, if you don't, then don't. I don't think there is a right or wrong answer when it comes to suspension, it all comes down to how you like it. Some riders may hate the way someone elses is set up, but that is just them. There are just TOO many factors. No two set ups are the same...they all have different adjustments or angles, travels, springs, valving, etc... But then again, I am no expert so correct me if I am wrong.
QUOTE (Happyboy @ Jun 24 2007, 04:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This is an easy one to answer. The companies want to sell them. They put the more expensive shocks on the riders quads through sponserships, discounts, etc.... And don't you know it, if I see a pro rider using them then I have to use them. Its the business.
Gabe over on exriders put up a very nice post about the differences in the setups. The result was no difference. You get almost exactly the same shaft travel (little more because of angle) but the larger the angle the worse the shock can perform. The best setup would be the shock straight up and down but thats hard to do. I will see if I can find that post some time.
Gabe over on exriders put up a very nice post about the differences in the setups. The result was no difference. You get almost exactly the same shaft travel (little more because of angle) but the larger the angle the worse the shock can perform. The best setup would be the shock straight up and down but thats hard to do. I will see if I can find that post some time.
Yeah I spotted his post on that. Trust me there is a difference and not cause I paid money for them. As for the Pro's you are right bad choice to judge against, but the Proams they don't get as much as you would think and most try to run what works the best. It is fine if you don't think your LT is working better than sell it to someone else and let them use it. I am still gonna say the same thing I was in your shoes and said there can't be a real difference until you get on them. As for there being no difference in shaft travel that is incorrect. The pivot point is lower the shaft is longer and the useable space is larger. Hit something massive with it and push it to it's limits and then say there is no difference. Just not a true statement. I spent some time on my own researching this and found that yes you can make a standard travel front end work well, but there is no way it is better than LT.
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cannondale27
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I agree with Derno on this one.The long travel shock has more shaft travel that allows the valving/springs more time to compensate for a hit.A standard travel shock can be made to work but its much more difficult.Flipside is in some cases like TT and Oval you dont want all that downtravel it just not needed and just leads to bumpsteer.