Buddism has a good story I found during my studies. It is how they approach the different religions.
Many have heard it...."The blind men and the elephant". It has even made its way into today's movies in the Matrix.
The story basically says that we are all limited in what we see ( I say that is by education) and we all strongly believe that what we see is what it is and that noone else is right. But if you can stand back and look at the world as a whole we are all talking about different pieces of the same entity.
That sums up what I believe in a nutshell. I personally believe that Christ is the son god and he gave his life for us. Is that the requirement for getting into heaven? Are others that have given thier lives for the enlightement of others but didn't believe this going to ****? I sure hope not. If so there are a ton of good people that went to ****. I personally would hope that our God wouldn't be this petty.
Sorry if this got jarbled. Like I said, I certainly don't have the background that I should, so I put this together as best I could.
micro chips in people.what do you think
Thanks for the reply.
I feel I have a couple of Watts going to my light bulb, so I can talk about some of the science as well. May we start there?
You may have heard some discussion on Macro and Micro evolution. What the current theory says (sorry for the current statement, they are always changing it as new things are discovered, as it should be.) States that we sprang from an mix of items in a certain condition and walla, Life. Basic Chemistry and molecular biology make this an impossible situation. Based of course of what we understand today, this has not been done succesfully in a lab yet. The one example had the wrong gasses and under the correct (believed) conditions no amino acids formed.
Macro is that we have a common ancester. Not a monkey! At some point in time we split from a branch of a common tree. One became Primates the other Human. The problem here is how and why things changed. Mutation will not explain it.
Micro is that species are species and cannot change from one into another. Ape to man, feline into canine, etc. We have been playing with Bacteria for hundreds of years and at the rate that they repoduce you would think that one of the bacteria changed into something other than bacteria. Hasn't happened yet. This is also in the Bible, Genesis. God created each after their own kind. He's got my vote.
One of the first rules are that: You cannot get life from non-living orginisms. In sun or water, polypeptides that are used to bond the nucleotides together break down in; wait for it, water and U.V. exposure. So at this point in time we don't have a bonding method for the chemicials. Than when you get into the All life is built from right handed (Dextro) amino acids, than you start to realize that you cannot spontaneous generation.
The odds that a free-living, single-celled organism, such as bacterium, might result by chance combining of pre-existent building blocks is 10 to the power of 100,000,000,000. Mathematicians tell us that any event with an improbability greater than on chance in 10 to the 50 is in the realm of metaphysics- i.e., a Miracle.
One of the other is Laws of Thermodynamics: Entropy
A. The tendency for all matter and energy in the universe to evolve toward a state of inert uniformity.
B. Inevitable and steady deterioration of a system or society.
Or how can ORDER come from Disorder? Does your garage clean up itself?
So if these are LAWS how is evolution able to go against both of them?
Do I believe in Natural Selection? Yes, that can and has been observered. Dogs all different shapes and sizes but still dogs. Canine, One of the animals species from the Ark? I don't know.
Two excellent easy to read books on Evolutions problems are;
Refuting Evolution and Refuting Evolution II By Jonathan Sarfati PhD.
I purchased several copies if anyone is interested. Ohh, you didn't know of any problems with what we where taught in school. These book are written so that they present the theory and than discuss what we know today. This will allow for you to see which side makes the most sense.
emphsis added
I used to believe in evolution as taught in Public Schools. The more I read as an adult with a clear and sometimes thinking mind is I was lied to. As a new Christian I believed that God just set it in motion and turned His back. The more I read and understand the Bible and Science the more I believe the Genesis version.
Smitty
You may have heard some discussion on Macro and Micro evolution. What the current theory says (sorry for the current statement, they are always changing it as new things are discovered, as it should be.) States that we sprang from an mix of items in a certain condition and walla, Life. Basic Chemistry and molecular biology make this an impossible situation. Based of course of what we understand today, this has not been done succesfully in a lab yet. The one example had the wrong gasses and under the correct (believed) conditions no amino acids formed.
Macro is that we have a common ancester. Not a monkey! At some point in time we split from a branch of a common tree. One became Primates the other Human. The problem here is how and why things changed. Mutation will not explain it.
Micro is that species are species and cannot change from one into another. Ape to man, feline into canine, etc. We have been playing with Bacteria for hundreds of years and at the rate that they repoduce you would think that one of the bacteria changed into something other than bacteria. Hasn't happened yet. This is also in the Bible, Genesis. God created each after their own kind. He's got my vote.
One of the first rules are that: You cannot get life from non-living orginisms. In sun or water, polypeptides that are used to bond the nucleotides together break down in; wait for it, water and U.V. exposure. So at this point in time we don't have a bonding method for the chemicials. Than when you get into the All life is built from right handed (Dextro) amino acids, than you start to realize that you cannot spontaneous generation.
The odds that a free-living, single-celled organism, such as bacterium, might result by chance combining of pre-existent building blocks is 10 to the power of 100,000,000,000. Mathematicians tell us that any event with an improbability greater than on chance in 10 to the 50 is in the realm of metaphysics- i.e., a Miracle.
One of the other is Laws of Thermodynamics: Entropy
A. The tendency for all matter and energy in the universe to evolve toward a state of inert uniformity.
B. Inevitable and steady deterioration of a system or society.
Or how can ORDER come from Disorder? Does your garage clean up itself?
So if these are LAWS how is evolution able to go against both of them?
Do I believe in Natural Selection? Yes, that can and has been observered. Dogs all different shapes and sizes but still dogs. Canine, One of the animals species from the Ark? I don't know.
Two excellent easy to read books on Evolutions problems are;
Refuting Evolution and Refuting Evolution II By Jonathan Sarfati PhD.
I purchased several copies if anyone is interested. Ohh, you didn't know of any problems with what we where taught in school. These book are written so that they present the theory and than discuss what we know today. This will allow for you to see which side makes the most sense.
emphsis added
I used to believe in evolution as taught in Public Schools. The more I read as an adult with a clear and sometimes thinking mind is I was lied to. As a new Christian I believed that God just set it in motion and turned His back. The more I read and understand the Bible and Science the more I believe the Genesis version.
Smitty
Re: Thanks for the reply.
QUOTE
Originally posted by Smitty911
=As a new Christian I believed that God just set it in motion and turned His back.
Smitty
=As a new Christian I believed that God just set it in motion and turned His back.
Smitty
This is what I believe. People say things couldn't have started on their own, well, they didn't. God started the ball rolling. This was his plan. And he has let us do what we will, not matter how good or bad.
Did primative man exist? Uh ,yeah. Did Dino's exist? uh yeah. So when did they exist? Well, what about during those 7 days? Do you think God invented the modern 24 hour day? No, those 7 days could have been 7 million years.
Wait theres more.
QUOTE
Originally posted by Happyboy
1. Buddism has a good story I found during my studies. It is how they approach the different religions.
Many have heard it...."The blind men and the elephant". It has even made its way into today's movies in the Matrix.
The story basically says that we are all limited in what we see ( I say that is by education) and we all strongly believe that what we see is what it is and that noone else is right. But if you can stand back and look at the world as a whole we are all talking about different pieces of the same entity.
That sums up what I believe in a nutshell. I personally believe that
2. Christ is the son god and he gave his life for us.
3. Is that the requirement for getting into heaven?
4. Are others that have given thier lives for the enlightement of others but didn't believe this going to ****? I sure hope not.
5. If so there are a ton of good people that went to ****.
6. I personally would hope that our God wouldn't be this petty.
Sorry if this got jarbled. Like I said, I certainly don't have the background that I should, so I put this together as best I could.
1. Buddism has a good story I found during my studies. It is how they approach the different religions.
Many have heard it...."The blind men and the elephant". It has even made its way into today's movies in the Matrix.
The story basically says that we are all limited in what we see ( I say that is by education) and we all strongly believe that what we see is what it is and that noone else is right. But if you can stand back and look at the world as a whole we are all talking about different pieces of the same entity.
That sums up what I believe in a nutshell. I personally believe that
2. Christ is the son god and he gave his life for us.
3. Is that the requirement for getting into heaven?
4. Are others that have given thier lives for the enlightement of others but didn't believe this going to ****? I sure hope not.
5. If so there are a ton of good people that went to ****.
6. I personally would hope that our God wouldn't be this petty.
Sorry if this got jarbled. Like I said, I certainly don't have the background that I should, so I put this together as best I could.
I have labeled you points and my responses for clarity, I hope. I also would like to state that I am not trying to make anybody mad. These are my beliefs, I welcome any comments.
1. Buddism has a good story. I agree, good story, and some valid points. I have read "the greatest man that ever lived, Buddah." I forgot who wrote it. Unfortunatly it can be refuted with the Bible on pretty much all levels. Buddah never claimed to be a god, Demi god, deity, etc. He was a Prince, Husband and Father, He had responsibilities to Country, Wife, and Child, but he climbed over a wall and left them. Did he tell anyone or did he sneak out? He abandoned all of his responsibilties to become a begger. Not much of a man to follow his example of at this point. There are no witnesses to any of the events that can be varified. No historicial location, people, etc. to even say he lived. I may be wrong and if so please point me to the information. I could go on if you are interested in a Biblicial point by point. The main one being that Buddah, was a sinner, died and is buried somewhere (if he ever lived). Jesus has historical proof outside of the Bible, locations that exist today, people in political power to verify his existance. Never turned from His responsibilities, Death on the Cross to pay for our sins. IS God, and was resurrected, defeating death.
2. Christ is the son god and he gave his life for us. Yes, but the fuller explainationis He IS God. Immanual = God with us. God in the flesh. Third personage of the Trinity (God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit)
3. Is that the requirement for getting into heaven? Yes, Romans 10:9 "That if you confess with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord' and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." Some people have an intellectual (sp) belief in Jesus. Like they do of George Washington. That won't do it. James 2:19 Jesus says"You believe there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that and shudder." Demons have an intellectual (sp) belief in God. They know who he is.
4a. Are others that have given thier lives for the enlightement of others but didn't believe this going to ****? 4b. I sure hope not.
4a. I can't honestly answer. No man knows what's in another mans heart. The Bible warns about false teachings. Buddah believed that he would accend to nirvana. God says in the Bible that he knows of none that have made it.
4b. I sure hope not also. But **** was not created for Humans. We choose by our unbelief to not be with God. It says in Revelation that in the end times during the coming judgements that man will still curse God, so they Gotta go somewhere.
5. If so there are a ton of good people that went to ****. We come back to the "good people" I don't know any. The standard, or ruler to measure are the 10 commandments. I can't get past the first one. I have broken all of them at one time or another. Romans 3:23 "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." and Isa 64:6 But we are all as an unclean [thing], and all our righteousnesses [are] as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
6. I personally would hope that our God wouldn't be this petty.
Petty and God I don't think go in the same sentence. Here's why. If you take a 100 gallons of pure white paint, and put one drop of black paint in it, is it still pure white? God is Holy, Pure, Mighty, and rightous, if he allowed for someone in sin to be with him, without accepting Jesus payment for that sin, than he would be like the white paint with the black paint in it. Not really petty, he has a way for people to join him, all you have to do is accept.
I am enjoying the conversation, after an average of two years most christians don't know any non-believers.
Smitty
Re: Re: Thanks for the reply.
QUOTE
Originally posted by Happyboy
This is what I believe. People say things couldn't have started on their own, well, they didn't. God started the ball rolling. This was his plan. And he has let us do what we will, not matter how good or bad.
Did primative man exist? Uh ,yeah. Did Dino's exist? uh yeah. So when did they exist? Well, what about during those 7 days? Do you think God invented the modern 24 hour day? No, those 7 days could have been 7 million years.
This is what I believe. People say things couldn't have started on their own, well, they didn't. God started the ball rolling. This was his plan. And he has let us do what we will, not matter how good or bad.
Did primative man exist? Uh ,yeah. Did Dino's exist? uh yeah. So when did they exist? Well, what about during those 7 days? Do you think God invented the modern 24 hour day? No, those 7 days could have been 7 million years.
If he left us on our own that would mean we serve an impersonal god. One that doesn't really care for us. That is not what is in the Bible. When God first made a covenet with man, He spoke with him, lived in a tent while the Jews where in the desert. Sent his Son to die for our sins. If we were on cruise control, Why go though the effort. Doesn't add up to what is in the Bible.
Can you define Primitive man? I watch the Leakys on Discover channel and found it interesting. They found two skull caps about 6" in diameter at two different location and made a whole society from those two fragments.
Dino's - What was the book of Job talking about Behamoths? Dino's for sure.
If you take ONE, Singular passage from the Bible that a day is as a thousand years to God than you might be able to come up with the Billions of years that would be needed to get to where we are. It would still not explain that animal changing from one type into a completly different type but for the sake of arguement.
In the Hebrew scriptures the words they use to convey time is very precise. I have an article at work that I can scan and e-mail to any intrested party that shows that the words used CLEARLY call for a 24 hour day.
Re: Re: Thanks for the reply.
QUOTE
Originally posted by ******
But how do you explain the contradictions in the bible?
One thing I learned in a Bible course I had in a catholic university is that the Bible can be contradictory.
The books of Mathew, Mark , Luke , and John are examples where the same story is told in different ways.
Can we believe these stories as truth? or just listen to the so called rumors and stories we hear?
I do believe there is a higher power that started us on our way and we are well forgotten about and are on our own.
I'm not a believer of the after life or someone watching over us now. you die you die.
Maybe there is a scientific reason of why the right situations created life? why are we the only planet with a true life out here no one can explain that not even the precious Bible.
But how do you explain the contradictions in the bible?
One thing I learned in a Bible course I had in a catholic university is that the Bible can be contradictory.
The books of Mathew, Mark , Luke , and John are examples where the same story is told in different ways.
Can we believe these stories as truth? or just listen to the so called rumors and stories we hear?
I do believe there is a higher power that started us on our way and we are well forgotten about and are on our own.
I'm not a believer of the after life or someone watching over us now. you die you die.
Maybe there is a scientific reason of why the right situations created life? why are we the only planet with a true life out here no one can explain that not even the precious Bible.
I will attempt to answer your questions; this is my understanding of the Bible at this point. The more I read it the more clarity comes.
1. I have not been able to find any REAL contradictions in the bible. Do you have one that we could discuss?
2. This is not a dig at Catholic teachings but, the Catholics do not exactly teach a Biblical outlook on everything. So if that is what the class was about I would check other sources. Did one stand out that you had a question about?
3. The "Gospel" is the "Good News". They are the first four books of the New Testament. IF they were told word for word there would be Obvious collusion and therefore unreliable.
4. Yes, we can believe the stories as truth. First off the benefit of the Truth would apply. Say I ask you what your name is and what you do for a living. What ever you say I would believe. Motive ?????????????????? What motive would they have to make ANY of these stories up? How did they benefit? Third party verification, historical, geographical, political, and Eye witnesses existed at the time that also recorded some of the facts. Do any of the stories seem unbelievable? Now in light of what the Old Testament said that the Messiah would do when he came? Would any of these stories be inconsistent with what God wants to do for us?
5. What kind of higher power? Why would that higher power make us and leave us? The Bible tells us that God walked with Adam in the cool of the evening. God walked with two angles and stopped and ate and talked with Abraham. God traveled with the Jews in the desert. Talked though all the Old Testament Prophets. Than sent his only son Jesus to pay (die) for our sins on the cross. I would take that as a active involvement of out lives. The Bible says in several places that he is concerned with us on a One on One relationship.
6. The Bible tells us that God is Omnipotent (all powerful), Omnipresent (he is everywhere), and that we exist as Body, Mind and Soul. The Bible also tell us that ????????????????To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.??????????????? This means when we die we stand before Jesus and we are judged for our acceptance or rejection of Jesus. He will either say ????????????????Enter good and faithful servant??????????????? or ????????????????Depart for I knew you not.??????????????? When you die it will be too late to make the choice. So right now if you die you are correct you are dead. For those that accept Jesus's payment for our sins we will go on living with God.
7. Science will never be able to explain the creation of life. They may, one day be able to say how, they will never say WHY. We are the only planet that will ever be able to support life. The Bible in several places calls the Earth special. If there are others planets that God put people on I believe it would have been mentioned, almost everything else is covered.
Keep them comming, I am enjoying the conversation. One of the nice things about this conversation is you can say anything you want, ask anything you want, without fear, judgement, condemnation, guilt etc. I will answer any question as honestly as I can.
Smitty
I didn't forget this, we just havn't been able to post
QUOTE
Originally posted by Happyboy
Sorry I haven't responded. Being busy is the big part of it but its also hard to come back with any response when the person you are talking to is extremly educated. I have my beliefs but I have not educated myself on the bible like I should. I may have to change that some time soon.
What is being good? Well, are we talking biblically or socially? You would hope it were the same thing but its not. Our society has been so focused on not interfering with others rights that we have lost focus on what our society was based on, christian beliefs.
With that being said I can argue on both sides of the fence. I think everyone should be allowed to live their own life, whether that be in what I consider sin. At the same time I hate our laws being changed and tweaked to rid our schools of our christian beliefs.
I know that I just completely changed our conversation but I think this one is more relevant that what I personally think is "good".
Sorry I haven't responded. Being busy is the big part of it but its also hard to come back with any response when the person you are talking to is extremly educated. I have my beliefs but I have not educated myself on the bible like I should. I may have to change that some time soon.
What is being good? Well, are we talking biblically or socially? You would hope it were the same thing but its not. Our society has been so focused on not interfering with others rights that we have lost focus on what our society was based on, christian beliefs.
With that being said I can argue on both sides of the fence. I think everyone should be allowed to live their own life, whether that be in what I consider sin. At the same time I hate our laws being changed and tweaked to rid our schools of our christian beliefs.
I know that I just completely changed our conversation but I think this one is more relevant that what I personally think is "good".
Happyboy,
Most Catholics or Jack Catholics, I have spoken with have not read the Bible and go by what the priest or church tells them. Some are even surprised to find out that some of what they are taught is not in the Bible. I.e. praying to the Virgin Mary or other Saints to ask them for x, Rosary prayers, confessional booth, purgatory, etc. I would encourage you to read the Bible for yourself. This should not be taken as an attack against Catholics; if you disagree with any of the above examples, please find the Biblical verses.
As far society goes, it would be nice if we could live by Jesus example. That isn??????????????????t going to happen on Earth. When we look to society for answers we are using our own standards, not Gods. Right now Society says that people to living together before marriage is OK. The Bible says not to, and living as a married couple would is considered sin. So let??????????????????s look at who is correct. Some of the latest Polls show that people who live together before marriage break-up almost 60% of the time, before they get married. Even when they get married they divorce more than 50% of the time. So that??????????????????s roughly 80%. People who don??????????????????t live together and get married divorce about 20% of the time. This was noted across ALL belief systems. God is right on this one. Dr. Dobson from ????????????????Focus on the Family??????????????? did the polls as well as other national polling establishments. Look around at some of the people you know and see if this holds true.
We cannot sit on a fence and argue both sides. Jesus said ????????????????If you are not with me you are against me.??????????????? His call is to everyone to accept the free gift of salvation. A non-vote is a negative vote.
Smitty
Are we done????? Hope not.
All,
Hopefully some of you have read this post and started to think about the "WHAT" and "WHY" you believe.
Read and understand the statements about both sides and make a informed decision. Please don't take one side as fact. The information is avalible for a understanding of the issues.
I believe they come down to two basic statements.
1. There is a God, and he laid down some laws to follow, if I can't follow them, I will have to pay for breaking them, or choose to accept Jesuss offer of payment for them. The choice is mine.
2. There is no God and I can do what I please with no consequences.
I look forward to any question.
If your living like there is no God, you had better be right.
Smitty
Hopefully some of you have read this post and started to think about the "WHAT" and "WHY" you believe.
Read and understand the statements about both sides and make a informed decision. Please don't take one side as fact. The information is avalible for a understanding of the issues.
I believe they come down to two basic statements.
1. There is a God, and he laid down some laws to follow, if I can't follow them, I will have to pay for breaking them, or choose to accept Jesuss offer of payment for them. The choice is mine.
2. There is no God and I can do what I please with no consequences.
I look forward to any question.
If your living like there is no God, you had better be right.
Smitty