Power Commander Group Buy

[thedeatons]

I thought I had.... there wasn't a discussion on the lack of timing adjustment so I thought I would throw it out there.

You are right, GP teams have different maps for each part of the track, done by GPS. Not arguing that.

My point in a nutshell was: D&M can tune all aspects, including timing. Power Commander can NOT, but is easier to work with, because you just hand it to the dyno operator.

Does that explain what I was initially trying to see a little better?

[claas900]

So would we be able to try different maps with PC to see witch one makes the most power. What I'm saying is can we load a map tune it with the PC see what hp we get the try a different map tune again with PC and see what power that gives us?
Also I am down for one for sure trying to talk to my buddies into it also so I may have a total of 3 spoken for.

[cannondale27]

Yes that would work fine.

[jesshamner]

Don't get mad at thedeatons. He is just discussing theories or hypotheses. It is a good thing to explore all aspects of the Power Commander. I don't think I read a post where he said it was a bad idea or was even trying to tell people not to get it.

claas900, thanks for asking that question. I thought that is what I asked but I didn't get that answer.

[cannondale27]

Jess when false info is posted it just gets everyone confused and scares people away from a good thing. Lets put it this way. If anyone hasnt tuned their quad on a dyno or done some major time with the old fashioned way a PowerCommander will help your tune no matter what map you have. Those who have tuned it remains to be seen whether it will make a difference or not. All depends on how much time you spent and what kind of guage you used. (dyno,meter,plugs) Also depends on if you just went for AFR or power.

I would think that with the realtime tuning ability PowerCommander has either thier Wideband kit or a meter such as Innovate would be a very effective combo. You could tune as your going up a hill or whatever then move whole AFR up and down to do comparisons for powerpeak against another quad.

[jesshamner]

Wrong or right information posted, some of my questions were answered, which is a good thing. I had my reservations about it at first but now it sounds great. Now if I could find some money lying around, I would get one. Maybe I'll just skip the group ride so I can get it....nah. I'd rather ride with you guys and listen to Derno talk my ear off. LOL.

[claas900]

Maybe this has been answered already, but can the PC be told what AFR we want it to be tuned for? So we make a run and get say 13.5 AFR can we tell it to tune for say 13.0 AFR and see what power it makes?

[thedeatons]

Yes you can, for maximum safety you can do that. Maximum hp is rarely at optimum AFR though, especially on Dales it seems.

[cannondale27]

Yes. And once again I don't know what you are talking about Deatons. If you mean the 14.6 AFR most car manufactures say then for sure that's not maximum power. Only quad I ever saw make power at that is YFZ. We are normally between 12.5-13.5 if you are saying that the flat AFR line doesnt produce most power prove it. I can show you hundreds of AFR's where any variance from flat AFR resulted in loss of hp in exact same range the variance is. If still not satisfied it is just a matter of going into the PowerCammonder map and tuning to a different afr just for that range which could be done by hand or using the dyno tuning link. Our Cannondale dip is one area that has helped but it is a band aid for another issue.

It's really very simple. If using tuning link they have recommendations for different quads normally right at 13.5:1 the tuning link will make entire range at 13.5:1 or whatever afr you choose. You end up with a close to perfectly flat AFR from idle to wide open under load and off load.

Then if a decent dyno operator he will do some runs for HP using the normal dyno program 3 runs per step to make sure each is accurate.
1st using no Commander
2nd using your Commander and 13.5:1 map
3rd 10% richer
4th 10% leaner
Look at power produced. Is it more when richer or leaner? If so go 5% from 13.5:1 in direction needed. Then 2% eventually you will lose power again and then you know last map was where most power was.

These HP steps are done in about 10 minutes.

Getting the flat AFR even with tuning link can take some time since tuning link will reject any movement of throttle, rpm hiccup, AFR variance or a slip of tires etc. It must sample all factors many times for each range. Some without a tuning link do the same thing by hand since you can use the arrow keys to move fuel richer or leaner for whatever box or range you want but that does take some skill and finess. If a tuning link is not available or even if a different make dyno it could still be done in this matter. Could also be done with a meter and another quad for a guage.

All this may seem very complicated and time consuming but think about it. The shop has tons of $ stuck into that dyno. That means they must use it and use it alot to pay for it. The dyno operator has probably got 1000's of runs on it so he is very comfortable and fast. Could do it in his sleep. Even with all the dynoing us guys have done using ProCal and D&M I still have to stop and think about what I am doing and make errors that cost time/hp all the time. It's not my job and I don't do it enough to be totally error free. Those without Dealer Cal doing other's machines I can't imagine the headaches. This will end that. If it doesn't. Complain to the service manager till its done right. Get your $ back and go to another dyno. There should be no excuses for poorly tuned machine. As you may know at dyno I go to there is a new guy who is a moron. He did a excellent job on my Raptor. I was impressed and I don't even like this guy. Well my buddy's Suzuki LTR is not right. He paid his initial fee $120 and has gotten over 6 hrs of tuning since. It should be perfect and don't accept any less. They know it and should keep trying till it is.

[claas900]

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