This cracks me up!!! A post from atvriders

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MX Quad Dad · #41 Post by **MX Quad Dad** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 6:13 pm

QUOTE (2000ex @ Dec 15 2008, 10:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I tend to agree with Jacob on this one. This comment is strictly reserved for GNCC type racing, but HP is just about the last thing you need. Great tires, skids, properly setup suspension, and a dampener come far before HP. For 2hrs of racing through the woods the more HP, the more tired you are going to get. It is not necessary at all. Not to mention to get there you will most likely be running an open air filter which I strongly do not recommend for this type of racing. This is coming from someone who has several 50+ hp MX machines, and those motors in the woods would be more of a hinderance than a help.

OK i wouldn't argue about how much you need. when we were going to the MX tracks I was the first to tell the new commers that they will see bigger improvement per $ buy first upgrading thier suspension (well really, phisical conditioning would be more retuns per $, but you (I) can't put that any way without someone taking it the wrong way). and I can't tell you how many times they proved me right by showing up with a built motor and stock suspension and getting beat by someone they didn't have a problem with before.
I assume most Dalers would have at least SPEED suspension or better. so with that I would say if someone was going to rebuild a dale and thier budget permitts and after all the reliabilty updates are done, try to squeeze more HP if they can afford it. to try to plan on dyno tuning. then port the head maybe increase the displacement and from what Ive been reading here is unless you really stretch the limits the extra mods don't hurt reliabilty. at least a D&M is required also. the people who race Gncc need to find someone with the knowlage and determination like our HP Kings here to start working on some good lower or more controlable HP maps (dosen't throttle response affect how hard the HP comes on?). I think you would have a killer quad. just need the map select then. You could have the controlable HP for the tight stuff then kill them on the open stuff. That is what I thought cannondale had in mind?

cannondale27 · #42 Post by **cannondale27** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 6:42 pm

467cc stroker is still in my opinion the best all around motor for everything.450cc stroker second.Think about it guys as of 06 ALL the Jappers have 95mm pistons.That means they are like a 2.2mm stroked Cannondale.Skip the porting for the Harescrambles and you have just made a motor = to the Japanese quads.

thedeatons · #43 Post by **thedeatons** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 6:43 pm

45hp wheelies up every hill I hit too..... once again gearing is a major factor. I was able to hold the top of 3rd gear going up Choke Cherry, with the wheels trying to lift up the whole time.... I would imagine my 45hp properly geared is similar to 50hp with MX gearing (in the sand).

cannondale27 · #44 Post by **cannondale27** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 7:27 pm

Choke Cherry is short enough and good enough run that momentum carries you most of way up.Piped YFZ made that easy when he had gas in tank

Not a big deal at all.LS Utah is where I saw the motor really work.Remember the Dyno hill?Just a unnamed hill.YFZ and a stock Cannondale ran out of power wasnt tires and I just dont believe there gearing was that far off.Can always shift down.Was same every time.No arguments just all they had.Deatons 45hp IS more than stock.Climbing the hills is nice but you should be able to launch of top into that nice bowl behind it.
[attachment=7733:dyno_hill.jpg]

wistech · #45 Post by **wistech** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 8:53 pm

QUOTE (MX Quad Dad @ Dec 15 2008, 12:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

OK i wouldn't argue about how much you need. when we were going to the MX tracks I was the first to tell the new commers that they will see bigger improvement per $ buy first upgrading thier suspension (well really, phisical conditioning would be more retuns per $, but you (I) can't put that any way without someone taking it the wrong way). and I can't tell you how many times they proved me right by showing up with a built motor and stock suspension and getting beat by someone they didn't have a problem with before.
I assume most Dalers would have at least SPEED suspension or better. so with that I would say if someone was going to rebuild a dale and thier budget permitts and after all the reliabilty updates are done, try to squeeze more HP if they can afford it. to try to plan on dyno tuning. then port the head maybe increase the displacement and from what Ive been reading here is unless you really stretch the limits the extra mods don't hurt reliabilty. at least a D&M is required also. the people who race Gncc need to find someone with the knowlage and determination like our HP Kings here to start working on some good lower or more controlable HP maps (dosen't throttle response affect how hard the HP comes on?). I think you would have a killer quad. just need the map select then. You could have the controlable HP for the tight stuff then kill them on the open stuff. That is what I thought cannondale had in mind?

When I did a gnc I had a ported 432. All the power I could ever use for that . Bottom end below 7000rpm was pretty much stock so it didnt wear me out. The top end hit at 48hp got me through the straight sections no problem.
However for trail riding and I mean wisconsin fast trails and winter trails the 470 with 56hp and 35ft pounds of torque was the only thing that made me happy . Drifting a sweeping corner at 35mph and pulling a 85mph wheelie in a potatoe field thats a half mile long your just begging for more gearing and the nitrous . But for right now I am settling for the ported 432 till the stroker crank shows up. It gets the job done and I have no quams about wringing the stock crank relentlesly at the rev limiter.
As far as MX the only track I realy enjoyed is speed2424's . I rode a bunch of stock quads on it while I was waiting for my Moto to be delivered and it was a rude awakening to get on the beast and almost crash on the first jump by grabbing to much throttle. Personally I think the 460 stock stroke is perfect for MX at 55hp. Its just soft enough on the bottom to keep from getting arm pump.

When I build engines the first thing I ask is what its going to do. I know it seems like we are going overboard building the flyswatter motors for some of these guys. There are guys like Cdale55 who run the GP ice races . He needs torque to pull holeshots and get through the corners but also needs mega top end to beat them in the long straights. So far the 467's at 56 and 57 hp took him to the championship in the open pro classes but he really had to work at it beat 530cc plus engines. Hopefully the 505's will give him an edge this year if they can hold together because as we are seeing the jap quads are making big power too and its much easier since they are not cc restricted like we are.

jesshamner · #46 Post by **jesshamner** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 9:43 pm

My 450 stroker works great in the woods and I have been running x440/speed map. It rips but is never too much. I think the Cannondale power is just so easy to work with, it lends itself to being a good woods machine. It doesn't wear me out like a yfz would. Just my 2 cents.

jacobw · #47 Post by **jacobw** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 11:21 pm

i am gonnna build a 450 stock stroke for a xc machine and work in 467 stroker for mx and that will be all the motors i will ever need and let me tell you I ride in the A/pro-am classes so i dont let grass grow under it either but i am a fairly lighter guy at 180lbs than most of riders of 200lb averages

thedeatons · #48 Post by **thedeatons** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 12:51 am

Yah, I agree, 45 is more than stock.....

speedracer · #49 Post by **speedracer** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 1:04 am

Wow this is a active thread.My comment about h.p.was more a question,than a statement.I just think that the quad manufactures are waging a h.p.war.The more experienced rider will be able to handle,less experienced riders get injured which,in the eyes makes some,make all atvs death traps.

cannondale27 · #50 Post by **cannondale27** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 2:58 am

People get hurt know matter what they are doing.It because they dont use thier head.