OT: Are you a Democrat, Republican or Southern Republican?

[Ryanstones]

QUOTE

Originally posted by ******
90% of the so called screw ups that happened to the bush administration was started before he got elected. if you look at the way our country was going it was on a down turn before bush got elected NAFTA was a bigg contributer to the losss of jobs in the US and guess who started that CLINTON and the democratic run congress!!!

sorry ******, every point i made is solely on GW's watch, except possibly the loss of high paying jobs. As for Nafta, Clinton was president, but congress was republican and they supported it as well.

[thomez]

I simply posted a list, compiled by others, that is fact.

If you can't post fact to support your opinion, debate is worthless.


I think Marc did a little copy/pasting himself, judging by the double quote.

"The Klan is needed today as never before and I am anxious to see its rebirth here in West Virginia.", he said, "The Klan is needed today as never before and I am anxious to see its rebirth here in West Virginia."

I doubt that you would type that twice and not realize it

[Pro400EXC]

I'd probably just give him one shot in each knee to bring him down to size...Then excecution style right to the head when he's on his knees pleeding for life...lol...wow..now i sound like a cold blooded murder'er....I am Southern All the Way!!

Joe

[Jaybr]

The problem we have here is that Facts do not the truth make!, and most people don't take the time to figure that out.

Are Ryan's facts true? I know Ryan and have no doubt that they are absolutely true, however both sides of this arguement can list facts all day long to support their side, and without looking at the big picture we still don't know the truth.

Fact: "net loss of jobs is the worst of any presidential term since the depression"
This is in fact a true statement, however it does not show the whole picture and when you look at these other facts in conjunction what is the conclusion?
Fact: Unemployment is down to 5.4%, lowest it's been in years
Fact: Worker productivity is up
Fact: Averarage and Median houshold income has risen the past 3 years.
Fact: Home ownership is at an all time high.
Fact: Inflation is down.
Fact: Bush's tax cuts lowered income tax rates for all classes.
Opinion: Given more information on the situation, the job loss fact doesn't seem quite so bad to me. Maybe jobs are being lost, but they are also being created. Maybe the new jobs people are getting don't pay quite as much as the old jobs, fact still remains that median household income is up and taxes are lower so people have more money in their pocket at the end of the day. You can form your own opinion

Since I brought up tax cuts, lets look at some facts there since the party line is that Bush's tax relief was for the rich.
These facts are from a report from the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office
Fact:Across 109.4 million tax-paying households ?????????????????? from the wealthiest 1 percent with incomes averaging over $1 million to the lowest-earning 20 percent of people with incomes averaging $14,900 ?????????????????? the report shows that all income classes have seen their income tax rates lowered thanks to Bush??????????????????s cuts in 2001, 2002 and 2003
Fact:2004 income tax rates have dropped for everyone compared with tax laws in force in 2000
Fact:Bush??????????????????s tax cuts have been ????????????????progressive??????????????? ?????????????????? that is, they have shifted the share of the overall federal income tax burden toward the wealthy and away from lower-income earners
Fact:Without the Bush tax cuts, the highest-earning 20 percent of households this year would have paid 78.4 percent of all federal income taxes. Now, after the Bush tax cutes, their share of the burden has risen to 82.1 percent. Every other group now pays a smaller share of the total income tax burden.
Fact: Under the Bush tax plan the income tax burden has shifted upward for the rich and downward for everyone else.

Bottom line here, study all the facts and make an informed decision when you go to the polls, just make sure you are truly informed and not relying on the media for your information.

Please remember this thread was a joke and not put here to get across any political agenda.

[thomez]

The better question is whether or not it is responsible policy to use tax cuts to gain votes when you are spending more money than in US history, fighting wars in 2 countries, and in the largest national debt in history

[Jaybr]

QUOTE

Originally posted by thomez
The better question is whether or not it is responsible policy to use tax cuts to gain votes

Now see, that's an opinion not a Fact

My opinion is that the tax cuts where to spur economic growth, and based on the Facts it seems to be working;)

[Jaybr]

BTW: if you have any interest in this thread, read it fast. As soon as Haydug sees where this has gone, he's probably going to delete the whole thread.

[NRath]

As a person that would like to know more without spending hours upon hours researching, I'm up for seeing this thread continue. I don't feel that I have enough information to make a truly knowledgeable decision come election day.

I say if we can keep it in one thread, let it go. I also hope to see more people in the debate offering facts than just JayBar, BigMac, and Stones. I for one have nothing valuable to offer, but I am reading it hoping to gain some insight into the people we're voting for.

:usa

[Mjollnir]

I'm just not in a debating mood, as I have more important things going on right now. I will leave it at this for now -

Zack, I proposed a moratorium on cutting and pasting "HUGE ARTICLES". Go back and read my post again. I then cut and pasted, apparantly twice, ONCE SENTANCE. I think there's a little bit of a difference there. You had to split your paste into two posts!

And simply because I didn't post a reply to every one of your 25(!) "points" doesn't mean that I don't have a reply to at least someof them, it just means that I don't think it's worth the time to do it. However, I will pick out one, just for the sake of argument:

QUOTE

5. Abortion

BUSH SUPPORTS A WOMAN'S RIGHT TO CHOOSE... "Bush said he...favors leaving up to a woman and her doctor the abortion question." [The Nation, 6/15/00, quoting the Lubbock Avalanche-Journal, 5/78]

...BUSH OPPOSES A WOMAN'S RIGHT TO CHOOSE "I am pro-life." [Governor Bush, 10/3/00]

Well good golly, that looks familiar! Why, you ask? Well, both of those statements apply to how I think! Horrors, I want to take away a woman's right to choose, you say??? NO! I am pro-life, but I also favor leaving the decision up to a woman and a doctor. In other words, my opinion is my opinion, and I will not force it on other people. THe above isn't a flip flop, it's a statement of two different parts of the same opinion.

Maybe I'll find time to respond to others as well.

Zack, Jay is right, you mistake opinion for fact. Some of what you say is hypocritical in the highest order. How can you say that you don't see Byrd as a racist, but Thurmond certainly was? Oh yeah, Thurmond was a Republican and Byrd is a Democrat. Now it makes sence. I forgot the old liberal rule of thumb:

Democrat = good
Repulican = evil

Why is it that the Dems seem to base everything not on what they will do, orwhat they have done, but rather on the politics of fear - what evils the conservatives have done / are doing / will do? Because they got nothing else.

Marc

[thomez]

Marc, I read your post and your complaint, I just knew I would get a rise out of you by pointing out your copy/paste error I was more than anything joking around about it... nothing serious there.

I could have linked those 25 points but decided that it was better posted, as many fewer would follow a link to read them than to look here on the forum. I think that was a fair decision, maybe you do not. I'm not sure that there is a lot of worry about forum space wasting with 2 posts when a picture obviously would take more kb than text.... I see no harm done.


I happen to have the same views on abortion, but there is a difference between being pro-life and supporting legislation to ban abortions and being pro-life and leaving it up to a woman and her doctor. This is the distinction that must be made there and it is a large one. I am pretty sure that Pres. Bush would sign any attempt to ban abortion rights if they were to reach his desk. Actually, I believe he did support the wording of the "partial-birth" abortions ban (which nobody agrees with) - but the wording was an obvious first step in banning abortion completely. You must look at the details and not the surface.


Strom Thurmond is well known for the longest filibuster in the history of the Senate when he spoke singlehandedly for over 24 hours against the Civil Rights Act of 1957 in support of continued segregation. Of course, all of this was quite the joke when it was uncovered that he had a child with a black woman.... but Republicans never have sex scandals do they? :drink:

I'm less concerned with what Byrd did for 2 years in the 40's than what Thurmond did on the Senate floor and as a presidential candidate.

That is not hypocritical!


What have democrats done? Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid (sp?), the national highway system, Unemployment, moved people off of Welfare (Clinton era), put cops and firefighters on the streets, protected the environment, and supported the middle class. That's enough for me to be proud of!