Honduh's
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cannondale27
- Posts: 0
- Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:41 pm
I sat and read through this entire post about FI and how much better a carb system is and whatever. Here is my opinion on the whole thing.
Its against the rules in NASCAR to run EFI I do beleive. Correct me in I'm wrong. The reason being is the cheating aspect. With EFI, the risk of cheating would greatly increase since the sport is based on driver consistancy versus vehicle speed and safety. Thats why they put restrictor plates on the cars to slow them down. They were reaching speeds that uncontrollable in racing conditions with what NASCAR would let them run in terms of cars.
As far as drag racing is concearned, almost all of the top fuel and funny cars use efi. They have for quite a few years now. Engine feedback is the number one issue when running a straght line. If you dont know what the motor is doing, your shooting blind.
It is inevitable that Suzuki, Yamaha and Honda will have EFI sport quads and bikes in the near future. But they wont make the mistakes that Cannondale did with theirs. With our system, all we need is a computer and the right software to work on our bikes, thats not very money making when you think about it. It makes much more money sense to make you the buyer take it a dealership to have the maps changed.
The reason you dont see pros use EFI yet is because theres no push for it. They all have very competent mechs to tune and set up the bikes, and the horsepower gains with efi isnt enough to make them change. Carbs do have some advantages but, EFI has just as many, especailly for the private user. If you like to swap out jets and tune the old fashsion way, go ahead, but dont be trashing guys who spend their hard earned money tuning how they want. Your obviuosly full of yourself way to much to be wrong in your thinking I'm sure, but lets be civil or get the he!! out!
Its against the rules in NASCAR to run EFI I do beleive. Correct me in I'm wrong. The reason being is the cheating aspect. With EFI, the risk of cheating would greatly increase since the sport is based on driver consistancy versus vehicle speed and safety. Thats why they put restrictor plates on the cars to slow them down. They were reaching speeds that uncontrollable in racing conditions with what NASCAR would let them run in terms of cars.
As far as drag racing is concearned, almost all of the top fuel and funny cars use efi. They have for quite a few years now. Engine feedback is the number one issue when running a straght line. If you dont know what the motor is doing, your shooting blind.
It is inevitable that Suzuki, Yamaha and Honda will have EFI sport quads and bikes in the near future. But they wont make the mistakes that Cannondale did with theirs. With our system, all we need is a computer and the right software to work on our bikes, thats not very money making when you think about it. It makes much more money sense to make you the buyer take it a dealership to have the maps changed.
The reason you dont see pros use EFI yet is because theres no push for it. They all have very competent mechs to tune and set up the bikes, and the horsepower gains with efi isnt enough to make them change. Carbs do have some advantages but, EFI has just as many, especailly for the private user. If you like to swap out jets and tune the old fashsion way, go ahead, but dont be trashing guys who spend their hard earned money tuning how they want. Your obviuosly full of yourself way to much to be wrong in your thinking I'm sure, but lets be civil or get the he!! out!
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jesshamner
- Posts: 0
- Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:41 pm
QUOTE
Originally posted by John Thomas
I know you can use different maps and I have. But in reguards to HP, 4 is alot. I am not putting down the cdale but showing you how you can make it better.
I know you can use different maps and I have. But in reguards to HP, 4 is alot. I am not putting down the cdale but showing you how you can make it better.
What good is the extra horsepower if you can't manipulate how the power comes on? Thats one thing that is special about cdales.
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John Thomas
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- Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:41 pm
Point well taken. EfI is a better more advanced system. But the efi system on the cdale is not. They could have used a modern efi system that is light weight and efficient. They have been using them on street bikes since the early 90's. Instead cdale putout a technology based application in a passive state. FCR carbs are no low tech piece, they are very complicated. And you better believe that honda and yamaha will infact produce efi sport quads. They will use current technology and lose weight off of there race quads. Also the aftermarket will produce cpu's to adjust the mapping as well. It will not be a money making affair. Buying a vortex ignition will allow you to change power curve characeristics just like the cdale. for under 400 if that is what you want get it. You can custom map the ignition and do all sorts of crap you don't need. So you don't need efi to do custom mapping. What?!?
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Cdale_racer_669
- Posts: 0
- Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:41 pm
QUOTE
Originally posted by John Thomas
Point well taken. EfI is a better more advanced system. But the efi system on the cdale is not. They could have used a modern efi system that is light weight and efficient. They have been using them on street bikes since the early 90's. Instead cdale putout a technology based application in a passive state. FCR carbs are no low tech piece, they are very complicated. And you better believe that honda and yamaha will infact produce efi sport quads. They will use current technology and lose weight off of there race quads. Also the aftermarket will produce cpu's to adjust the mapping as well. It will not be a money making affair. Buying a vortex ignition will allow you to change power curve characeristics just like the cdale. for under 400 if that is what you want get it. You can custom map the ignition and do all sorts of crap you don't need. So you don't need efi to do custom mapping. What?!?
Point well taken. EfI is a better more advanced system. But the efi system on the cdale is not. They could have used a modern efi system that is light weight and efficient. They have been using them on street bikes since the early 90's. Instead cdale putout a technology based application in a passive state. FCR carbs are no low tech piece, they are very complicated. And you better believe that honda and yamaha will infact produce efi sport quads. They will use current technology and lose weight off of there race quads. Also the aftermarket will produce cpu's to adjust the mapping as well. It will not be a money making affair. Buying a vortex ignition will allow you to change power curve characeristics just like the cdale. for under 400 if that is what you want get it. You can custom map the ignition and do all sorts of crap you don't need. So you don't need efi to do custom mapping. What?!?
I have some very real problems with your post. Can you please explain how the Cannondale FI weighs so much more than any other FI in motorcycle applications. They both have to use the same inputs(sensors)....they both have to have a computer....they both have to have a throttlebody. Where is all this weight difference that you keep talking about??
I agree with you that Cannondale used an older FI system on their early bikes and quads, but the system they use now is anything but antiquated. If you think the current systems are the same old technology that you referred to in your earlier post, then you don't know much about fuel injection systems. That is not meant as an insult, just an observation from someone who is well trained and experienced with current FI technology. I work on FI for a living and go to classes 4-6 times a year to stay updated with the current technology in the automotive industry which is what this system is based on. And, no, it's not quite up to date with the automotive industry, but it wasn't developed decades ago like you implied.
The HP gains that you mentioned with the FCR carburetor is due to the change in airflow through the intake. The airflow rate on that particular carb is greater than the throttlebody on the Dales. You could effect an even greater HP change by finding a throttlebody that size and putting it on instead.
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Cdale_racer_669
- Posts: 0
- Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:41 pm
power is derived from gas and air burning, so a carb isnt gonna let it have more power, unless it flows better. the reason why efi can make more power is cuz u can tune fuel curves and such. and since it is injected in, the engine doesnt have to SUCK it in, the injectors spray it towards the cylinder. and on a personal note, i hate messing with carbs, and i have no problem at all messing with FI. at first i was intimidated with the extra wires and such, but now i love it and wuldnt go back to a carb.