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jwheat · #81 Post by **jwheat** » Mon May 09, 2005 2:43 am

QUOTE

Originally posted by Cdale_racer_669
and since it is injected in, the engine doesnt have to SUCK it in, the injectors spray it towards the cylinder.

While the fuel injectors do spray fuel towards the valves, the motor still draws air and fuel into the cylinder by vacuum. Gas engines are just great big air pumps and work the same whether they're carbureted or injected. On a carburetor system, fuel and air both come in through the carburetor and are drawn into the engine....on a port injection system like Dales, only air comes in through the throttlebody and fuel is injected behind the throttlebody in front of the valves.

jwheat · #82 Post by **jwheat** » Mon May 09, 2005 3:04 am

QUOTE

Originally posted by John Thomas
This is the real truth, Fuel injection is much better but................cdale system is not. Cannodale purchased an australian company the designed the system in the 1960's, yes very old injuction technology.

I'm not sure if you're just misinformed or trying to BS your way through this and hope no one notices. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you're just misinformed. I won't dispute your claim that Cannondale bought an Austrailan company since I have no personal knowledge of that. I will say for a fact that the current FI on Cannondales was not developed in the 1960's. No company in the 1960's had the technology to build a FI system with a computer that was capable of bi-communication. The original system could have possibly been developed at that time, but it was changed to a much more current system very soon after the start of Cannondale production.

jwheat · #83 Post by **jwheat** » Mon May 09, 2005 3:58 am

MISC. FACTS ABOUT FUEL INJECTION

The use of a venturi(carburetor) reduces volumetric efficiency by approximately 15%, which results in a reduction in engine power. Thus, a fuel injection system increases the power that an engine with the same engine displacement will produce.

Fuel injection allows for more precise control over the mixture of fuel and air, both in proportion and in uniformity.

Fuel injection was developed in 1889 in Europe.

Used in diesel engines starting in the 1920's.

Used in airplanes in the WWII.

First fuel injected car was a 1955 Mercedes-Benz.

First mass produced computer controlled fuel injection was developed in 1975 and controlled by an anolog computer and not capable of accepting input.

First digital computer controlled fuel injection that was capable of receiving input and making fuel adjustments was developed and used in 1980.

First FI that uses speed density control(barometric sensor) instead of a mass air flow meter was developed in 1990.

Current Cannondale FI systems could not possibly have been produced before 1990 and certainly not in the 1960's

John Thomas · #84 Post by **John Thomas** » Mon May 09, 2005 4:16 am

The cpu was intergrated into the system, the original company did develop the fi in the 1960's.

jwheat · #85 Post by **jwheat** » Mon May 09, 2005 4:19 am

What was developed in the 1960's was a prototype with a crude anolog computer......no comparison to what is used today.

CptHook · #86 Post by **CptHook** » Mon May 09, 2005 7:09 am

Yeah jfarrar? Well my dad can beat your dad up! what now?!?!

Happyboy · #87 Post by **Happyboy** » Mon May 09, 2005 1:53 pm

Who all here likes JWHEAT!!?? :deal:

John Thomas · #88 Post by **John Thomas** » Mon May 09, 2005 2:30 pm

Thanks for the input jwheat. That is all dandy but in the real world a carb on a cdale produces more HP. Sure if designed correctly 15 percent more hp could be obtained but not the current case. Why hasn't someone tried to redesign the cdale fuel injection system? Also the fuel pump on the cdale is huge, its for a compact truck motor. Look at a new fuel injection system on a snowmobile, the fuel pump is small and light. Efficient. The injectors, wires and harness, not much to it. Someone should try to adapt one of these more advanced systems. Any ideas. Is it possible to direct inject to the valves and head. Common Jwheat you should beable to figure this out.

CptHook · #89 Post by **CptHook** » Mon May 09, 2005 2:30 pm

YOUR MOM likes jwheat, WHAT!?!?!!

Happyboy · #90 Post by **Happyboy** » Mon May 09, 2005 2:46 pm

QUOTE

Originally posted by John Thomas
Thanks for the input jwheat. That is all dandy but in the real world a carb on a cdale produces more HP.
Why hasn't someone tried to redesign the cdale fuel injection system? Also the fuel pump on the cdale is huge, its for a compact truck motor. Look at a new fuel injection system on a snowmobile, the fuel pump is small and light. Efficient. The injectors, wires and harness, not much to it. Someone should try to adapt one of these more advanced systems. Any ideas. Is it possible to direct inject to the valves and head. Common Jwheat you should beable to figure this out.

If the carb produces more HP prove it. And also show how you had identical air flow to the current setup for a fair comparison.

And for your rant about the fuel pumps, now you are knocking us for not changing fuel pumps? Ever heard the expression, if it ain't broke don't fix it? What is wrong with the current fuel pump other than it being large and cumbersome? And what do you mean direct inject into the valves and head? What the heck is it doing? Last I checked it sprays down towards the injectors when they are opening up. Is this not what you are talking about?

I do like the way the arguement went from spitting out facts on our outdated system to CARB BETTER, YOUR EFI SUCKS. Come on man, throw out some real reasons or flaws instead of "they did it better" or "your fuel pump is too big".