Before it begin - The Jesus Tomb March 4th

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Smitty911
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#1 Post by Smitty911 »

As some of you probably are aware James Cameron the producer of the Titanic is showing a "Documentary" on the Discover Channel on March 4th.

The claim is that this tomb held the remains of Jesus, Mary, Judas, and others.

So before we get to the Hollywood version lets get some TRUTH in there.

QUOTE
By Julie Stahl
CNSNews.com Jerusalem Bureau Chief
March 01, 2007

Jerusalem (CNSNews.com) - The makers of a new documentary detailing the supposed discovery of Jesus' tomb should be ashamed of the inconsistencies and unscientific evidence they are reporting in the film, said the archeologist who oversaw the initial dig.

Nevertheless, said Prof. Amos Kloner, the film should be shown to the public in the interest of freedom of expression.

"The Lost Tomb of Jesus," scheduled to air on the Discovery Channel on March 4, has come under harsh criticism from archeologists, scholars and religious figures -- both here and abroad -- for claiming to show the final resting place of Jesus, his son, and Mary Magdalene.

The assertions in the documentary fly in the face of Christianity and the Bible, which says that Jesus was crucified and buried but rose again from the dead after three days and later ascended into heaven. According to the Bible, Jesus never married or had children.

The tomb was first discovered in 1980 when construction workers were digging in the Jerusalem neighborhood of Talpiot to clear the way for new apartments there. The tomb -- one of hundreds discovered in Jerusalem -- contained 10 ossuaries (bone boxes), six of them with inscriptions on them.

The names on the boxes were all names found in the Gospels. Experts here said earlier that it was merely a coincidence, since those names were common at the time.

Prof. Amos Kloner oversaw the excavation of the site in the 1980s as the district archeologist of Jerusalem. He later published his findings in a professional archeological publication.

Kloner, currently an archeologist at Bar Ilan University in Tel Aviv, said he did not want to speak about the documentary but he did mention that it is so full of inconsistencies that it will leave viewers with the wrong impression.

"It is not scholarly and not scientific, he said. "It's very amateur," Kloner told Cybercast News Service on Thursday.

Kloner noted that the documentary spends about 10 minutes talking about "the missing ossuary," suggesting it could be the same ossuary that turned up several years ago in the hands of an antique dealer who claimed that it was the burial box of James (Jacob), the brother of Jesus.

Experts later discredited the ossuary (which bore the inscription "James, son of Joseph, brother of Jesus") as a forgery and fraud.

Due to a lack of storage space, only nine of the 10 ossuaries found in the tomb in 1980 were held by the Israel Antiquities Authority after they were examined and documented, said Kloner. But the tenth one that was discarded did not have any inscription, he said.

In an interview at his home on Wednesday, Kloner said the documentary's director Simcha Jacobovici has mixed up the burial cave featured in the documentary with another one that was located some 60 feet away.

Jacobovici shows pictures taken by a camera that was sent down a pipe into the tomb. The majority of the viewers won't understand that this is not the same cave, said Kloner.

The tomb that is now being promoted as Jesus' family tomb is a ganezia -- a repository or a burial site for religious texts that can no longer be used due to their physical condition, Kloner said. (According to Jewish tradition, any scripture or religious text that has the name of God in it cannot be simply discarded but must be buried.)

Kloner also is bothered by the fact that information in the documentary was taken from scholarly works published in the mid-1990s, but those works are never credited in the film.

Much of the movie was filmed on sets recreated from the drawings and photographs taken from those works, he said. In one scene, the ossuaries are shown covered with dust that is being brushed away to reveal the inscriptions, he said.

But that's not the way they were found, he said.

Watching the documentary, viewers could get the impression that the filmmakers themselves revealed something that was not previously known, he said.

The documentary was made according to the "imagination of people," he said. "I don't accept the claim that this tomb was the burial place for the family of Jesus," he said.


1. Old News the BBC did the same story in the mid 1990, no big deal than none now.
2. Jesus, Mary and Judas where some of the most common names back than.
3. By Jewish tradition, Jesus would have been buried in Nazarene, after one year in the tomb.
4. Two of the Boxes had DNA to see if matched (Mary and Jesus) they did not, this shows no relationship between them.
5. Jesus family was poor (Carpenter) unlikely that they could have afforded a nice place like that.
6. The inscriptions are from the Herodian Period due to style.
7. Thomas put his hands in the marks left from the nails. - Why would that be talked about if Jesus died?
8. Jesus is Witnessed to ascend into heaven. - WITH his body, so what would have been in the ossuaries?
9. If somehow they could prove that Jesus did not ascend into heaven and that is really the Box that held his bones than we would have to throw Christianity out.

Your thoughts are welcomed.

Smitty

cannondale27
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#2 Post by cannondale27 »

I agree its a bunch of bunk.Remember the box with inscription was proven to be fake.

I am not saying the rising of Jesus was fake I believe that to be true.But if it was I can guarantee that the body would never be found.Look at the opportunity any of Apostles or believers would have had to get rid of Jesus's body.Total fabrication.

Happyboy
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#3 Post by Happyboy »

QUOTE (Smitty911 @ Mar 2 2007, 09:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
9. If somehow they could prove that Jesus did not ascend into heaven and that is really the Box that held his bones than we would have to throw Christianity out.

Your thoughts are welcomed.

Smitty


While I do agree that they are stretching it with the show but I will wait till I see it to say how much I gotta disagree with your last comment.

If his body didn't ascend into heaven I wouldn't beleive any less in his works or his message. I kinda hope you wouldn't either.

harleypitbull1
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#4 Post by harleypitbull1 »

QUOTE (Happyboy @ Mar 3 2007, 10:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
While I do agree that they are stretching it with the show but I will wait till I see it to say how much I gotta disagree with your last comment.

If his body didn't ascend into heaven I wouldn't beleive any less in his works or his message. I kinda hope you wouldn't either.



Anyone who is a true believer in christ, believes the bible from cover to cover to be entirely true. So no matter what anyone discovers or thinks they have discovered, a true christian would never believe any of it. The bible plainly tells us what happened and anything else is nonsense.

Smitty911
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#5 Post by Smitty911 »

QUOTE (Happyboy @ Mar 3 2007, 04:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
While I do agree that they are stretching it with the show but I will wait till I see it to say how much I gotta disagree with your last comment.

If his body didn't ascend into heaven I wouldn't believe any less in his works or his message. I kinda hope you wouldn't either.


Happyboy,

Although his message and works IS proof of Christ Deity. The following verses say that if he did not ascend than it is all in vain. I emphasized the good parts.

vain Look up vain at Dictionary.com
c.1300, "devoid of real value, idle, unprofitable," from O.Fr. vein "worthless," from L. vanus "idle, empty," from PIE *wa-no-, from base *eue- "to leave, abandon, give out" (cf. O.E. wanian "to lessen," wan "deficient;" O.N. vanta "to lack;" L. vacare "to be empty," vastus "empty, waste;" Avestan va- "lack," Pers. vang "empty, poor;" Skt. una- "deficient"). Meaning "conceited" first recorded 1692, from earlier sense of "silly, idle, foolish" (1390). Phrase in vain "to no effect" (c.1300, after L. in vanum) preserves the original sense.



1Cr 15:13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:
1Cr 15:14 And if Christ be not risen, then [is] our preaching vain, and your faith [is] also vain.
1Cr 15:15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.
1Cr 15:16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
1Cr 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith [is] vain; ye are yet in your sins.

This is basically saying that if Christ did not ascend than you are still responsible for your sins. That Jesus death on the cross is meaningless (because he didn't defeat death by his resurrection) and we should quit being Christians. By just believing in his works and message that bring him into the same as Buddha, Confucius, Mohammad, any other religious figure.

I have no fear that what is in the Bible is TRUE, this is just the latest in Attacks on Christ and his message. They seem to be coming at a faster rate than before. HHmmmm wonder why? cool.gif

Time is short.

Smitty

cannondale27
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#6 Post by cannondale27 »

QUOTE (harleypitbull1 @ Mar 4 2007, 01:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Anyone who is a true believer in christ, believes the bible from cover to cover to be entirely true. So no matter what anyone discovers or thinks they have discovered, a true christian would never believe any of it. The bible plainly tells us what happened and anything else is nonsense.


That is the most radical statement I have heard in a long time.Cripes people talk about Muslims who are taught to kill if you dont believe their religion.Well in context of a statement like quoted maybe they feel they are doing those they kill a favor!Question:Since I dont believe the Bible from cover to cover am I doomed to go to satan since I am no longer a Christian by your definition?Dont forget your going with me since I believe you are making Judgement and that is also a no no.

Happyboy
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#7 Post by Happyboy »

QUOTE (Smitty911 @ Mar 4 2007, 03:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
They seem to be coming at a faster rate than before. HHmmmm wonder why? cool.gif

Time is short.

Smitty


People have been saying this since Christ's day. Come on....you can read into stuff all day...doesn't make it true.

Sorry, I beleive in the teaching without beleiveing in the 100% correct or we all die thought. Take the message out of the teaching rather than just the teachings. How many religions say this book is true and nothing else is right? When we limit ourselve we are no better than the rest of the blind faith believers. Just MHO.

UpsMan
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#8 Post by UpsMan »

This is great stuff!!! OOOPs, gotta go. The easter bunny and tooth fairy just stopped by. I have to go entertain. Cheers!

harleypitbull1
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#9 Post by harleypitbull1 »

QUOTE (cannondale27 @ Mar 4 2007, 04:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
That is the most radical statement I have heard in a long time.Cripes people talk about Muslims who are taught to kill if you dont believe their religion.Well in context of a statement like quoted maybe they feel they are doing those they kill a favor!Question:Since I dont believe the Bible from cover to cover am I doomed to go to satan since I am no longer a Christian by your definition?Dont forget your going with me since I believe you are making Judgement and that is also a no no.



I am not making a judgement, just the way I feel. Everyone is entitled to thier own opinion, I was simply stating mine. The religion of christianity teaches that the bible is completly true. Not just parts of it. I never would judge or condemn anyone as it is not my place to do so. According to the teachings of christianity, after death comes the judgement! Only one person will be doing the judging and condemning. C27, may I ask, what part or parts of the bible do you believe to be false? And also I am not sure of all the different sections of christianity as far as church or christ, church of god, baptist and others, I know most believe the bible to be true from cover to cover but some may not. I can not vouch for those parts, but I know the baptist religion and church of christ do believe it. Also on the muslim statement, I believe they are told that if they die for thier religion they will have 12 virgins when they get to have or some kind of something like that. Once again, freedom of religion entitles everyone to believe what they wish. Like I said, only stating my opinion and did not mean to offend anyone if I did and If I did so , I am sorry.

Smitty911
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#10 Post by Smitty911 »

QUOTE (cannondale27 @ Mar 4 2007, 10:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
That is the most radical statement I have heard in a long time. Cripes people talk about Muslims who are taught to kill if you don' t believe their religion. Well in context of a statement like quoted maybe they feel they are doing those they kill a favor!Question:Since I don't believe the Bible from cover to cover am I doomed to go to satan since I am no longer a Christian by your definition? Don't forget your going with me since I believe you are making Judgment and that is also a no no.


'27,

I agree somewhat with your first line.

There is nothing wrong with Judgments, you and I both use our judgment daily. We also already went over the "Judge not least you be judged." out of context use in the last post.

Happyboy,

QUOTE
People have been saying this since Christ's day. Come on....you can read into stuff all day...doesn't make it true.

Sorry, I believe in the teaching without believing in the 100% correct or we all die thought. Take the message out of the teaching rather than just the teachings. How many religions say this book is true and nothing else is right? When we limit ourselves we are no better than the rest of the blind faith believers. Just MHO.


People have been saying this since Christ time your right but conceder the below. Not reading into anything, just reading whats avalible from the various news sources.

According to Biblical Prophecy:
1. Was it ever going to happen until the Jews were back in Israel? Roman occupation until 1968 nope.
2. Has man ever been able to wage world war before WWI? Nope
3. Has there been a time before where one world currency could be used? Nope
4. Has the technology ever before existed to mark ones hand for scanning? Nope
5. Has a time before ever existed before to allow for ONE world leader? Nope
6. Have you noticed a increase in Wars, Famine, and Pestilence? I have.
7. Is what is morally Good being concedered wrong? All the time
8. Is what is morally Wrong being concedered Good? Abortion comes to mind.
9. Has Israel ever been surrounded and threated with being wiped out? Nope

I don't understand your beliefs, could you clarify? The Bible in the original manuscripts is 100% the inspired word of God. There are some typos in the Bible, care to find them? biggrin.gif

How can you separate the Message from the teachings?

Pretty much all other religions can make the claim that their book is true. Here is the really, really, really important part - ONLY THE BIBLE CAN SUPPORT THAT CLAIM.

In your HMO what should or should not be concedered in regards to limits?


UPSMAN,

It is nice to see that you are actually interested in the Bible. I would recommend reading one to your guest. smile.gif

Heres a nice little challenge for you: Can you show a historical event from the Bible did not actually exist? Should be easy for one who doesn't believe any of it. Feel free to make a list.

You also never responded to my questions on the Atheism post. Would you like to address them now? Hopefully you will think about what you actually believe and why. Here is the scary part - If you actually look at what you believe, and start doing some actual research into your beliefs you might find out you were wrong.

Smitty

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