Traction Control in Motorcross?

Message

jinx44 · #1 Post by **jinx44** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 7:54 pm

This is being talked about on another board. Traction control is common place now on small tire drag cars, which is what that board is dedicated to. Though complex in calculations, the basis is pretty simple. If wheel speed accelerates past a given amount, ignition timing is pulled to cut power.

There are also innocent things that a wheel speed sensor could do, such as just collect wheel speed data without being tied into the ignition.

So, what do you think? Is James Stewart cheating?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ySSSXDDGSw

I am torn on TC for drag cars. One on hand, I love seeing 3400lb, stock suspension, radial tire cars running 4.40 @ 178MPH in an 1/8th mile (new record will be faster when I go to the race in GA next month). On the other hand, it takes $15k in electronics to do it which leaves poor guys like me in the back of the field.

2000ex · #2 Post by **2000ex** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 8:14 pm

The LTR450R ATV has had traction control since 2008. It is that way from the factory. Essentially what it does is the ECM senses wheelspin and retards the timing to compensate. Maybe that is why Creamer and Wimmer won back to back titles on the Suzuki, but I doubt it.

jinx44 · #3 Post by **jinx44** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 8:41 pm

QUOTE (2000ex @ Jan 18 2011, 02:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The LTR450R ATV has had traction control since 2008. It is that way from the factory. Essentially what it does is the ECM senses wheelspin and retards the timing to compensate. Maybe that is why Creamer and Wimmer won back to back titles on the Suzuki, but I doubt it.

Really? I didn't realize that any ATV had utilized that. Very cool, especially if the values were adjustable by the end user.

2000ex · #4 Post by **2000ex** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 9:36 pm

According to Suzuki representative Rod Lopusnak, the 2008 has a gain of three horsepower over the 2007, plus something else that Suzuki refers to as the ???ECM Logics System???. ???The Logics System monitors throttle position and the RPM???s and the speed at which that throttle and RPM quickness is hit. Basically it measures how fast the rider reacts.??? Explained Lopusnak. ???The ECM adjusts the spray which helps control traction and doesn???t allow the wheels to spin quite as fast. There will still be quite a bit of wheel spin, but what it does is it slows down the wheel spin to give you much better traction. This was one thing that was key and it showed much better times in the lap times.??? Our test rider definitely noticed how the ECM worked out on the track. ???It was still a controllable slide but when you really punched it, it hooked up right away, there wasn???t much wheel spin, it just bit and pulled really hard coming out of the corners.??? Stated Davis.

peterock · #5 Post by **peterock** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 9:49 pm

I believe RC was talking about that during the race. They had zoomed in onm Stewart's rear tire and RC started questioning if it was legal or not.

2000ex · #6 Post by **2000ex** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 9:59 pm

I get that, was just pointing out that the LTR has it in stock form. In supercross it is illegal, however they could easily be taking that wheel speed data and making a map tuned based upon the exact GPS of the track that would essentially do that same thing.

jacobw · #7 Post by **jacobw** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 10:26 pm

the other teams could do it also, any teams that try something new, they get all pissed and everything, most skirtbike riders are like that man up and ride

jinx44 · #8 Post by **jinx44** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 10:27 pm

QUOTE (2000ex @ Jan 18 2011, 03:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

According to Suzuki representative Rod Lopusnak, the 2008 has a gain of three horsepower over the 2007, plus something else that Suzuki refers to as the ???ECM Logics System???. ???The Logics System monitors throttle position and the RPM???s and the speed at which that throttle and RPM quickness is hit. Basically it measures how fast the rider reacts.??? Explained Lopusnak. ???The ECM adjusts the spray which helps control traction and doesn???t allow the wheels to spin quite as fast. There will still be quite a bit of wheel spin, but what it does is it slows down the wheel spin to give you much better traction. This was one thing that was key and it showed much better times in the lap times.??? Our test rider definitely noticed how the ECM worked out on the track. ???It was still a controllable slide but when you really punched it, it hooked up right away, there wasn???t much wheel spin, it just bit and pulled really hard coming out of the corners.??? Stated Davis.

From that it sounds like they are just governing fuel on throttle tip in. Not truely controlling traction.

With a good traction control system, you can leave WOT on ice and never spin a tire.

speedracer · #9 Post by **speedracer** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 11:19 pm

Did you see Stewarts reply when he was asked about a tc device on his post race interview,kinda caught him off guard.Does Bubba really need help to win races?

cannondale27 · #10 Post by **cannondale27** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 12:09 am

I agree the Suzuki is not real traction control. Many quads and bikes have throttle position sensor on carb which also is used to cut timing giving a so called traction control. For it to be true traction control there would also need to be a sensor on the front wheel to see what actual speed is. I will tell you what though if it works as well as a car or truck I would like it. As long as a guy could shut it off when needed.