ATK badged C'Dales!

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promod · #1 Post by **promod** » Tue Nov 22, 2011 3:30 pm

Questions for my mighty group of knowledge fellow C'Daler's

!

Not owning any ATK badged Cannondales in quad or motorcycle form, looking for a little FYI

, and most of these questions do relate to the ATK motorcycle end!

When they gathered all remaining units from the factory and the dealers that still had them and done there change over new plastics, re-badging thing, what all did they do to the engines? were they torn down and rebuilt?

I know from reading past forum topics they never installed any updated rod bearing & balanced cranks, right?

Did they install a aluminum cam/valve cover on all of them? from some i seen it looks like they had black ones on them!

Did they use a aluminum water pump impeller?

Did they install metal oil pump gears?

Did they install some kind of bolt retention system on the cartridge plates?

Did they do any other updates to them?

What did they do about VIN numbers that C'Dale had already put on the frame's? did they change them? how did they call it a different year and what about MSO's?

Did any of the units they sold just start out of the parts bins and get assembled from chassis to engine?

Was anything about them better than the original C'Dale versions?

Any answers or input on this info or additional info on things i didnt ask would be greatly appreciated! Thanx & Ciao!

beanie$440$peed · #2 Post by **beanie$440$peed** » Tue Nov 22, 2011 4:25 pm

QUOTE (promod @ Nov 22 2011, 04:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Questions for my mighty group of knowledge fellow C'Daler's

!

Not owning any ATK badged Cannondales in quad or motorcycle form, looking for a little FYI

, and most of these questions do relate to the ATK motorcycle end!

When they gathered all remaining units from the factory and the dealers that still had them and done there change over new plastics, re-badging thing, what all did they do to the engines? were they torn down and rebuilt?

I know from reading past forum topics they never installed any updated rod bearing & balanced cranks, right?

Did they install a aluminum cam/valve cover on all of them? from some i seen it looks like they had black ones on them!

Did they use a aluminum water pump impeller?

Did they install metal oil pump gears?

Did they install some kind of bolt retention system on the cartridge plates?

Did they do any other updates to them?

What did they do about VIN numbers that C'Dale had already put on the frame's? did they change them? how did they call it a different year and what about MSO's?

Did any of the units they sold just start out of the parts bins and get assembled from chassis to engine?

Was anything about them better than the original C'Dale versions?

Any answers or input on this info or additional info on things i didnt ask would be greatly appreciated! Thanx & Ciao

far as I no they put balanced crank aluminum valve cover and impaler, made them tru 450s with a piston kit...thats about it I think not sure tho

kdeal · #3 Post by **kdeal** » Tue Nov 22, 2011 4:29 pm

Having seen several I think I am qualified to speak about them. I have an ATK motorcycle in the shop right now. The VIN is simply a sticker with the new ATK VIN number on it. The Cannondale VIN is still etched into the frame. As for modifications....... oh boy. They vary drastically. I would not guarantee anything being done specifically. I do know the motors came apart and something was done but it varies drastically. ATK has never been a proponent of the updated crank bearing. The latest ones came with a crank from Black Widow and would have the bearing update. Again, no way to know unless you pull it apart.

jacobw · #4 Post by **jacobw** » Tue Nov 22, 2011 4:32 pm

ATK didnt do all the updates to all the machines, yes they put the so called balanced crank in them but it never contained the z400 bearing so it still was a timebomb, they only installed alum valve covers on the ones that customers paid the extra for. Atk did the bare minimum to turn and profit and owed lots of vendors money for stuff they had already sold....they are scam artists and need a new gig every 4 to 5 years to get them by.

kdeal · #5 Post by **kdeal** » Tue Nov 22, 2011 4:43 pm

QUOTE (beanie$440$peed @ Nov 22 2011, 11:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

far as I no they put balanced crank aluminum valve cover and impaler, made them tru 450s with a piston kit...thats about it I think not sure tho

450cc motors were scarce, very few made. Easiest way to check is pull water outlet and look for a steel liner. They did not even have aluminum water pump impellers and valve covers until years after they started making ATKs. So good luck on that one. I do believe they used locktite on the cartridge plate bolts and used a better allen headed bolt on the crank cartridge plates. However, they would use longer bolts which scare me more do to the ability to bottom out without fully tightening the crank plate down. I replace them with the factory length bolts.

promod · #6 Post by **promod** » Tue Nov 22, 2011 4:47 pm

QUOTE (kdeal @ Nov 22 2011, 12:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Having seen several I think I am qualified to speak about them. I have an ATK motorcycle in the shop right now. The VIN is simply a sticker with the new ATK VIN number on it. The Cannondale VIN is still etched into the frame. As for modifications....... oh boy. They vary drastically. I would not guarantee anything being done specifically. I do know the motors came apart and something was done but it varies drastically. ATK has never been a proponent of the updated crank bearing. The latest ones came with a crank from Black Widow and would have the bearing update. Again, no way to know unless you pull it apart.

Reason being in this, i found a '07 450MX MC, which can get reasonable...but with already owning so many original C'Dales still thought it would be a cool bike to have as it was kind of the end of them being ATK's as i dont think we will never see anymore sold from them using the C'Dale platorm and would fit in my collection well but dont want to invest in another bike to pour a lot of money into for all the updates! Would this year model be the ones with the BlackWidow crank? as i never seen or heard of anyone speak of owning a '08 model or even being released although was shown on there site! and did the black cam/valve covers mean they were aluminum? and would you know of the WP impeller and oil pump gears? what have you seen? Thanx Again!

jesshamner · #7 Post by **jesshamner** » Tue Nov 22, 2011 7:10 pm

I know with some of the early ATK quads, Haydug was the actual builder under some deal with ATK. I didn't ever hear of him doing any HDC/ATK bikes though.

Just thought I would throw that out there.

rayspeed · #8 Post by **rayspeed** » Tue Nov 22, 2011 9:49 pm

If it is a black valve cover my bet is mag... gteenish blue, bare or a shiny valve cover would be likely aluminum. As said the 450 kit can be scoped out by pulling the water inlet above the crank position sensor. If it is iron than it would be a 450 or larger but I would not call that much of a plus in my book as IMHO the stock nikisal lasts longer. No telling what the crank is without splitting it but if it has the plug hole welded it is likely one of their so called ballanced ones. I would say if it is a runner put evans in it and limit the rpm to 10k and run it but there is another thing an atk loaded ecu needs their software but the trick is to just toss it and put in a cannondale ecu. The jury is out on the metal oil pump gears being much better than the plastic ones... if something gets in one of your pumps and jambs it you have problems either way.

who_gives_a6 · #9 Post by **who_gives_a6** » Tue Nov 22, 2011 10:26 pm

I picked up an engine from an 06 ATK awhile back. Had a black powdercoated mag valve cover, plastic impeller and gears, steel 97mm liner, loctited to all **** with drips down parts inside, and a rewelded crank. Tim ended up stroking that crank. Did not have the Z bearing. Also had the original bronze bushing clutch basket and the older style plates in it. No motor mount either. But not sure if the last three things there were even known to ATK.
Oh, the engine side cover didn't have a sightglass either. Was an older one. As well as a bike shifter on it though it was in a quad.

trav · #10 Post by **trav** » Tue Nov 29, 2011 3:43 am

after 2005'ish alum. impellers got installed, as well as cam covers. some were powder coated black till they seen the powder coating was wearing off, then all were issued bare aluminum
alum pump gears were not used, except on specail orders
early years 2004-2006 were stock c-dale cranks with balancing weight added
2004-06'ish used 450 wilcox piston kits, unless dealerships ordered 440 engines as a cost savings. weather dealerships claimed them as 440 or 450's when sold? who know's?
2006?-07'ish most got stroked falacon cranks and a 440oem piston kit, making it a 450cc, although some got a new designed wiseco high comp. piston.
although, toward the end of 07 some engines got c-dale oem cranks with z400 bearings.
by 2008 ran out of parts, as stated earlier looking for a new gig.

???? confused yet ???

,but ALL atk's got the wade wilcox assembly mods. end play issues addressed with shimming of balance shaft, crank, primary&output shaft, moding of 1 tranny gear for clearance issue, modding of shift star, & new spec's on valve clearance, and different cart. plate bolts used.
some 2004-05 models got the COX ring on the clutch basket reducing the harmonics of the basket.

then again, the owner of atk "frank white" would make ""specail deals"" with people and 1 off bikes were built as a "demo" or cheap/low budget model.
soooo, buy'n atk is like play'n darts. you may hit the bullz eye & get a good one, or ya hit yourself in the foot!!! MAYBE LOOSE AN EYE!!!