Smitty, this "The Messiah will be pierced through hands and feet
Psalm 22:16 Luke 23:33 and 24:36-39; John 19:18 and 20:19-20,24-27" is a false statement.
"Contrary to popular notion the nails which held Jesus to the cross must have been driven into His wrists and not his palms. Jesus' nails would have been made of heavy, probably square, iron material, 7-9 inches long. Many great painters from the past have depicted Jesus being nailed through His palms to the cross; it is a medical impossibility for this to be the case. You may have to really work your mind to grasp the enormity of what was going on here. The weight of a fully grown man was going to be suspended by three nails.
Not all crucifixions were carried out in the same way; some victims were tied to the cross while others were nailed. Jesus was nailed. He was made to carry the cross-bar to the place of His execution. The upright post (stipe) was a permanent fixture. The crossbar (patibulum) was always carried to the location, not the complete cross as is often depicted. When Jesus got to the place of His execution, He was placed on His back with His arms outstretched. The nails were first driven through small wooden disks to eliminate any chance of the heads pulling through the flesh. The site of the incision in the arm was critical; the Romans had perfected the procedure, a very specific procedure. The legionnaire who had been given the task felt for a specific spot, the nail had to be driven in-between the bones of the forearm up close to the wrist while not severing any major arteries or veins. There is a space between eight small bones which is structurally suitable to permit a full body weight to be supported for a time. If the nails had been driven into the palms of the hands, under the extreme weight, they would have ripped out between the fingers."
http://www.allaboutjesuschrist.org/jesus-nails-faq.htm
Just thought that was interesting. I guess that defeats the idea that the bible is the 100% true and accurate word of god, eh?
Atheism????
QUOTE (JumpinJer @ Feb 9 2007, 07:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Smitty, this "The Messiah will be pierced through hands and feet
Psalm 22:16 Luke 23:33 and 24:36-39; John 19:18 and 20:19-20,24-27" is a false statement.
SNIP
http://www.allaboutjesuschrist.org/jesus-nails-faq.htm
Just thought that was interesting. I guess that defeats the idea that the bible is the 100% true and accurate word of god, eh?
Psalm 22:16 Luke 23:33 and 24:36-39; John 19:18 and 20:19-20,24-27" is a false statement.
SNIP
http://www.allaboutjesuschrist.org/jesus-nails-faq.htm
Just thought that was interesting. I guess that defeats the idea that the bible is the 100% true and accurate word of god, eh?
JumpinJer,
Thanks for the information, it is well know by pretty much everyone the placing a nail in the palm would rip out. This has been common information about 2000 +++ years.
If you also take into account the the Psalms was written several hundred years "BEFORE" the Romans started the practice, I could give the 2" they were off. This is an easy; what you call a wrist they could have called a part of the HAND.
You had me worried there, I about renounced my faith. Thanks for trying and I appreciate the effort.
Now for some real fun with math, Look up Pi in the Bible and see how long it took modern man to even get close to the figure in the Bible.
Smitty
What, I was gone for the weekend and no one looked up Pi.
Any way, it appears that after all this discussion I have noticed a couple of items. These seem to be the Biggest reasons. Money, Tragic events/ Pain and suffering, Science, importance, are the four areas that seem to pop up.
I have taken the liberty of listing them below, and listed some of my thoughts, should you of course care to read them.
Smitty
Any way, it appears that after all this discussion I have noticed a couple of items. These seem to be the Biggest reasons. Money, Tragic events/ Pain and suffering, Science, importance, are the four areas that seem to pop up.
I have taken the liberty of listing them below, and listed some of my thoughts, should you of course care to read them.
- Because of "some" Established Churchs Money Grabbing, I choose not to investigate what the Bible says.
a. Not all churches function is to take all your money.
b. Most Pastors I have met have lived very modest life styles
c. Nothing is wrong for anyone, including Pastors, to have money.
d. If you feel the church you are going to or went to is about the money, GO TO A DIFFERENT CHURCH - Because of "some" tragic accident in my life, I choose not to investigate what the Bible says or believe in God..
a. God allows to much "Bad" in the world.
1. How much has he stopped?
2. How would you know he stopped them from happening?
3. What if the total is only 1% actually is happening and he is stopping the other 99%?
b. My brother died of Bone Marrow Cancer, other have lost their lives to X.
1. The Bible says Satan is the ruler of this world, so let's place the blame where it belongs, Him and Us.
2. We may never know the "Why" of an event this side of Heaven.
3. Can we accept that God gives and takes away? It hard for me to accept, but what are the alternatives?
c. What about all of the "Good" Events?
1. If we blame him for the Bad, shouldn't he get credit for the Good?
a. Cannondales, Honda, Yami's, and Suzuki
b. Glamis, Dumont, Half Dome, Yosemite, Hawaii, the United States, Freedom, Free will, etc.
d. The people who go to church are hypocrits, stole money from me, did me wrong, etc.
1. yea, so what, do you blame the teacher or the students for not following instructions.
2. I could tell you I'm a Basketball player, but as soon as you see me dribble you'll know that I'm not, same goes for the above. I've talked to people living together and still claim to be a Christian, ARE THEY?
- Because of my scientific knowledge, I choose not to believe the Bible.
a. There is no empiricial evedance of Gods existance, therfore I choose not to believe in one.
1. If I told you a story from my childhood, that could not be proven, does that mean the event did not happen? or that it wasn't true? How could you tell if it was true or not?
b. We know how science works and it proves the ToE.
1. No body argues Natural Selection, it is observable.
2. No Proof of Specie changes or Kinds in the Bible.
a. Anybody have a fossel of Reptile change to Avian?
3. Basic Biology - Life does not come from non-living cells,
a. How are you told life started?
4. Earth/fossil Dating/half lifes
a. We don't know what the whole life was when it was made.
1. Plot a battery voltage drop, hystresus (sp) curve - I just think a certain way, no support for my thoughts are needed.
a. I don't like what I have heard about other religions and picked and chose the parts I liked.
b. I refuse to believe in a God like X, so my god wouldn't do that.
1. EX. Pain and Suffering
2. Removed forever from his presence - he--ll
c. I don't care/ it' s not important enough to me to find out..
Smitty
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cannondale27
- Posts: 0
- Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:41 pm
QUOTE (cannondale27 @ Feb 13 2007, 12:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Cmon we want to hear a ride report!Did Sandstorm kick butt? 
YES HE DID, I posted in the RollCall in the Dune area.
Smitty
compmoto,
It only took you 40 minutes? You read fast.
All,
Hopefully by now someone has actually read some of the links, done some of their own research, and still have questions. I know I do.
The real question is;
Have you done any research?
What could be more important?
What if your wrong?
What if your right?
How will those questions be answered?
Does anyone still think the Bible is a bunch of made up stories?
We were talking about the "FLOOD" today in church about how fast sediment forms after geological events. 200 civilizations have a "Flood" story 80% of them have a boat, animals, 8 people saved (Look up the cantanize symble for "Boat", you will be amazed), punishment, etc. included into them. Hhmmmm Could it all be true?
How old was Adam when God created him? How old did he appear? How old would the earth be at creation? How old would it appear?
Just some thoughts.
Looking forward to your answers and questions.
Smitty
It only took you 40 minutes? You read fast.
All,
Hopefully by now someone has actually read some of the links, done some of their own research, and still have questions. I know I do.
The real question is;
Have you done any research?
What could be more important?
What if your wrong?
What if your right?
How will those questions be answered?
Does anyone still think the Bible is a bunch of made up stories?
We were talking about the "FLOOD" today in church about how fast sediment forms after geological events. 200 civilizations have a "Flood" story 80% of them have a boat, animals, 8 people saved (Look up the cantanize symble for "Boat", you will be amazed), punishment, etc. included into them. Hhmmmm Could it all be true?
How old was Adam when God created him? How old did he appear? How old would the earth be at creation? How old would it appear?
Just some thoughts.
Looking forward to your answers and questions.
Smitty
QUOTE (Smitty911 @ Feb 13 2007, 12:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
What, I was gone for the weekend and no one looked up Pi.
Any way, it appears that after all this discussion I have noticed a couple of items. These seem to be the Biggest reasons. Money, Tragic events/ Pain and suffering, Science, importance, are the four areas that seem to pop up.
I have taken the liberty of listing them below, and listed some of my thoughts, should you of course care to read them.
Smitty
Any way, it appears that after all this discussion I have noticed a couple of items. These seem to be the Biggest reasons. Money, Tragic events/ Pain and suffering, Science, importance, are the four areas that seem to pop up.
I have taken the liberty of listing them below, and listed some of my thoughts, should you of course care to read them.
- Because of "some" Established Churchs Money Grabbing, I choose not to investigate what the Bible says.
a. Not all churches function is to take all your money.
b. Most Pastors I have met have lived very modest life styles
c. Nothing is wrong for anyone, including Pastors, to have money.
d. If you feel the church you are going to or went to is about the money, GO TO A DIFFERENT CHURCH - Because of "some" tragic accident in my life, I choose not to investigate what the Bible says or believe in God..
a. God allows to much "Bad" in the world.
1. How much has he stopped?
2. How would you know he stopped them from happening?
3. What if the total is only 1% actually is happening and he is stopping the other 99%?
b. My brother died of Bone Marrow Cancer, other have lost their lives to X.
1. The Bible says Satan is the ruler of this world, so let's place the blame where it belongs, Him and Us.
2. We may never know the "Why" of an event this side of Heaven.
3. Can we accept that God gives and takes away? It hard for me to accept, but what are the alternatives?
c. What about all of the "Good" Events?
1. If we blame him for the Bad, shouldn't he get credit for the Good?
a. Cannondales, Honda, Yami's, and Suzuki
b. Glamis, Dumont, Half Dome, Yosemite, Hawaii, the United States, Freedom, Free will, etc.
d. The people who go to church are hypocrits, stole money from me, did me wrong, etc.
1. yea, so what, do you blame the teacher or the students for not following instructions.
2. I could tell you I'm a Basketball player, but as soon as you see me dribble you'll know that I'm not, same goes for the above. I've talked to people living together and still claim to be a Christian, ARE THEY?
- Because of my scientific knowledge, I choose not to believe the Bible.
a. There is no empiricial evedance of Gods existance, therfore I choose not to believe in one.
1. If I told you a story from my childhood, that could not be proven, does that mean the event did not happen? or that it wasn't true? How could you tell if it was true or not?
b. We know how science works and it proves the ToE.
1. No body argues Natural Selection, it is observable.
2. No Proof of Specie changes or Kinds in the Bible.
a. Anybody have a fossel of Reptile change to Avian?
3. Basic Biology - Life does not come from non-living cells,
a. How are you told life started?
4. Earth/fossil Dating/half lifes
a. We don't know what the whole life was when it was made.
1. Plot a battery voltage drop, hystresus (sp) curve - I just think a certain way, no support for my thoughts are needed.
a. I don't like what I have heard about other religions and picked and chose the parts I liked.
b. I refuse to believe in a God like X, so my god wouldn't do that.
1. EX. Pain and Suffering
2. Removed forever from his presence - he--ll
c. I don't care/ it' s not important enough to me to find out..
Smitty
Ok, so this is how God works in my life. I haven't been over to Riders in months. This morning after yet another canceled ride due to rain and track closure I for some reason found myself over here.
What do I find? This.
I'll be honest with you Smitty and obviously everyone else who is following this thread.
I believe, I accpeted Jesus as my savior. My big problem? I am lazy and I do not do
what I should. I looked for a Church I found a Church the Church is a disaster. Do I go look
for another? No. Am I lazy yes. Should I use this as an excuse not to do what I know is right and what I should. Not really but I still dont do it.
I believe God exists and I believe Jesus is my savior why? Its a long story but summarily
I would not be here today if it weren't for him. Literally! I asked for help and voila.
So Smitty add just plain lazy to your list.
Wow, I cant believe I just said all that in public.
-
cannondale27
- Posts: 0
- Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:41 pm
I too am lazy.Dont go as often as I should,spend more time doing things for me rather than God and others.Smitty the things I have debated about with you are really minor things if taken into account with big picture.Evidence is overwhelmingly in favor of existence of God,Jesus and vast majority of things written in Bible.The faults shouldnt matter since when honoring God if truly done it is between me and him.I also know that when I am following the Bible and its teachings it is a very fulfilling feeling that I also should be trying to spread to others.Never have but sure give you credit for taking extra step here.Thank You.
Badvox,
The prodigal son, LOL. God has a great sense of humor, look around. As far as the church goes, some are a mess and some are actually doing what we are told. The difference, I think, is know which is which
I did forget Lazy sorry about that one. I was lazy for a long time.
'27,
We have mostly spoken about the literal interpretation of the Bible which I subscribe to. It takes a lot less energy to read x and believe it as stated than to have to fit into my preconceived idea.
All,
Why do I spend Hours a week on this, some of you may ask, some my not but I'll tell you anyway.
I was working for a guy (name withheld) who claimed to be a Christian. He was doing home loans, and he was a pretty good salesman. I started with him and the first month I had about 15 loans that needed his assistance on. He didn't know how or couldn't get the loans funded, which means I wasn't getting paid. In the 4 months I worked for him I had over $10,000+ in commissions due me if the loans would close. Things got worse and worse my finances where drying up waiting for loans to close and answering phone calls from pretty upset people. He finally got one closed and my check for $2,400 bounced, so I called him and said I needed the money. He said he would have it later that evening. I spoke with him around 5:00 and told him I was coming to get the money, after Bible study. I called him at 8:30pm and his girlfriend answered and said "He's dead, ***** is dead" she found him dead on the sofa. He killed himself for roughly $30,000, robbing Peter to pay Paul. I was the last person to speak to him before his death, I sometimes think if there was something else I could have done or said, was me asking for my money the last straw, but in the end, it was and is to late.
Where did he end up after standing before God, I don't know, only God does. But it prompted me into action, finding out what is actually in the Bible and attempting to get people to read it for themselves. When we die, I don't want to see people that I have spoken with in the wrong line.
Your relationship to God is between you and God, I just ask the silly questions; Is it the God of the Bible or one you have made up to suit your image?
FYI - Pi in the Bible is accurate to the 5th decimal place, 3.141592
What is pi? Depends on who you ask.
Mathematician: Pi is the number expressing the relationship between the circumference of a circle and its diameter.
Physicist: Pi is 3.1415927 plus or minus 0.000000005.
Engineer: Pi is about 3.
Amazing that some Hebrews thousands of years ago know Pi and we just recently have the technology to measure it.
Gotta love it.
Smitty
The prodigal son, LOL. God has a great sense of humor, look around. As far as the church goes, some are a mess and some are actually doing what we are told. The difference, I think, is know which is which
I did forget Lazy sorry about that one. I was lazy for a long time.
'27,
We have mostly spoken about the literal interpretation of the Bible which I subscribe to. It takes a lot less energy to read x and believe it as stated than to have to fit into my preconceived idea.
All,
Why do I spend Hours a week on this, some of you may ask, some my not but I'll tell you anyway.
I was working for a guy (name withheld) who claimed to be a Christian. He was doing home loans, and he was a pretty good salesman. I started with him and the first month I had about 15 loans that needed his assistance on. He didn't know how or couldn't get the loans funded, which means I wasn't getting paid. In the 4 months I worked for him I had over $10,000+ in commissions due me if the loans would close. Things got worse and worse my finances where drying up waiting for loans to close and answering phone calls from pretty upset people. He finally got one closed and my check for $2,400 bounced, so I called him and said I needed the money. He said he would have it later that evening. I spoke with him around 5:00 and told him I was coming to get the money, after Bible study. I called him at 8:30pm and his girlfriend answered and said "He's dead, ***** is dead" she found him dead on the sofa. He killed himself for roughly $30,000, robbing Peter to pay Paul. I was the last person to speak to him before his death, I sometimes think if there was something else I could have done or said, was me asking for my money the last straw, but in the end, it was and is to late.
Where did he end up after standing before God, I don't know, only God does. But it prompted me into action, finding out what is actually in the Bible and attempting to get people to read it for themselves. When we die, I don't want to see people that I have spoken with in the wrong line.
Your relationship to God is between you and God, I just ask the silly questions; Is it the God of the Bible or one you have made up to suit your image?
FYI - Pi in the Bible is accurate to the 5th decimal place, 3.141592
What is pi? Depends on who you ask.
Mathematician: Pi is the number expressing the relationship between the circumference of a circle and its diameter.
Physicist: Pi is 3.1415927 plus or minus 0.000000005.
Engineer: Pi is about 3.
Amazing that some Hebrews thousands of years ago know Pi and we just recently have the technology to measure it.
Gotta love it.
Smitty