02 SB 450 quad for sale..
02 SB 450 quad for sale..
My quad is for sale . I will not part it out. My motor needs something done w/ the valves. I don't know what as I am not a mechanic.. The motor is out of the quad. I get a 54% discount on shipping through Overnite Frieght. My brothers company employees over 100,000 people so that is the reason for the huge discount.. It goes w/ Douglas .190's and Turf Tamers and 19" Holeshots on front. TCS 19" quadrate zero preload shocks valved for 190lb rider. My quad is paid for so the title is free and clear.. 7500.....
They won't fix it. In a nutshell I wanted them to pay for shipping and labor. They said no since I have been on here w/ various topics complaining and I bought it used. I could go into more detail and maybe I will later.. I have K&T Performance and Dennis Packard up the street from me so I might talk to Dennis or Kim Muchmoore..
-
brunofirst
- Posts: 0
- Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:41 pm
-
southbaymoto
- Posts: 0
- Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:41 pm
I would like to place clarification on this topic by offering our side. I have included our email letter to him expressing our position on this issue.
This gentleman never contacted us by phone he only made posts misquoting us and making a demand by email that we do everything for free and pay for his shipping too. Fact: Sand purchased an engine third party that had been originally sent to us destroyed, in a time when parts were unavailable. The components were repaired with the prior owners approval. He was cautioned on the forehand that the repairs might not hold. Fact: Sand purchased a $3000 engine and never cared to contact us to acquire support, maintenance, or care information about the product. Fact: Sand did not use our map because of an email from ? that stated and I quote "don't run they're map, it sucks". Our map has altered fuel and timing to prevent the 12:5/1 compression ratio from causing the engine to self-destruct. There are two people I would trust to design an alternate map, MAZ and Scooter from Optimum. I am currently working with MAZ to design maps for our engines. I highly doubt that either of them sent that email to sandstorm. If you don't use our map you take a chance on destroying your engine it's simple logic. We take no responsibility for this. Fact: Sand has misquoted us "we stand behind every motor we build" was never broadcasted, displayed or promoted by any one here at SBM. We do not offer a warranty on our services. We openly state this. We have never sold any service by misrepresenting a warranty policy. We do offer a start-up warranty and that is all. Our warranty is that we have never lost an engine to date. Please email me if you desire a copy of our start-up warranty. Opinion: Sand has generated this post in an attempt to force SBM to pay for his mistake by buying his silence. We will not back down to black mail. Note: Any customer using an unapproved map in our engine kits should contact me to discuss alternate mapping solutions. We do intend on developing better maps and new products to offer you. Currently I have shifted our focus from R&D and placed a priority on process development for quicker turn around times. I believe this is more important to our customers. Statement: In our opinion Sand has been very inappropriate in his business dealings with SBM we do not desire to service this customer in any way regardless of the payment method. We feel that there is a serious disconnect between he and SBM, we prefer that he would do his business elsewhere. Although we try to please every customer it is not always possible. Offer: To prove that we care about our customers and strive to provide the best possible service, I personally offer to the new buyer of sandstorm??????????????????s ATV we will make all needed repairs to the Comp IV free of charge. We will cover all parts, labor, and shipping costs for normal ground shipping. The buyer must provide identification and legal purchasing documentation. This is an offer of good faith, no scams please.
Finally, I want to state on behalf of SBM that we encourage opposition in these forums as long as it is researched and merited. I welcome all requests and complaints. I spend much time here learning what Cannondale owners want and how we as a company can better serve you. These internet forums can be useful tools if used for the purpose of good. If misused they can also be extremely damaging.
Jason Farrar, please contact me at your convenience to discuss your issue and get it remedied ASAP.
EMAIL TO SANDSTORM 10/08/2003:
Henry,
We do everything we can to satisfy our customers and to provide them with the best possible service and services. I have evaluated your situation and have multiple comments to make on your request.
Garry had ridden more than 5 hours on that motor when you purchased it from him. Additionally, Garry's engine was a complete disaster from the time it was sent in. We had to repair, replace and machine almost every component on that engine. We did this in a time when parts were scarce for all Cannondale owners. Considering the circumstances I believe it to be done in a timely manner. Garry was a very appreciative and understanding customer we valued his business.
Your third party purchase is none of our affair except for when you decided to bring us into it. I have no knowledge of you or Garry or what was done to the engine by you or he. We build quality, dependable racing engines. We do not install them into your machines nor do we maintain them for you. Your choice of fluids, maps, maintenance schedule, etc. is beyond our control. Once the engine leaves our building it is out of our control and becomes your liability. We broadly advertise this. Had you purchased the engine through us you would understand this. We do not offer any warranty, or guarantee. There is not an engine builder in their right mind that will offer a warranty on a competition-racing engine. We do not, and we state this before you decide to purchase any service through us allowing you to make a decision about your purchase.
Our "words of reliability" stand true! They come from the many satisfied customers that we have provided services to. These customers understand these machines and they understand what we do and us. They love and appreciate the power, the service and the dependability that goes with it. I will again reiterate we have never lost an engine. Your issue is not an engine malfunction! Your issue, as it appears, is that you have not used the correct map that came from us. We are the only ones that have this map. If you bought an engine from someone else you do not have the correct map, there is no way to transfer this map with out it coming directly from us. You are the only person we have ever emailed a map to. Our engines are designed to work with a map we created. This map has altered timing and fuel delivery to prevent the engine from self-destructing. Detonation caused by incorrect timing values is responsible for your issue. For this we are not at fault, as well we are not bound to fulfill your unreasonable demands.
When we sell an engine we give the customer the option on what stage to buy, we offer a solution to accommodate everyone. Gary decided to buy our competition race engine. This engine has won races nation wide. It is designed for closed coarse competition racing. It runs on the ragged edge to provide the most power anyone has ever pulled from this engine including the factory. It is one of the most powerful four stroke engines in its class. Gary knew this, had you done your do diligence on SBM you would have also known this. Regardless, when you are using a tool of this magnitude you must follow the rules. The rules consist of break in, mapping, fluids and maintenance. With the information I have regarding your issue, you have broken the rules causing detonation and damage to your beryllium alloy valve seats. This is causing your valves to come out of adjustment frequently. You must break in the engine properly, you must use full synthetic oil with maximum lubricity, you must use our custom map, and you must maintain your vehicle on a regular basis. If you do not follow these rules your engine will malfunction. When we sell an engine we also sell the support to go with it. Again had you done your do diligence you would have known this.
Finally, I do not appreciate your demands and what I consider to be negative press in the chat forums. Your posts are unrealistic, and out of context. You posted negative things with out ever speaking with me. Your post topic "SB 450 is toast.. " is untrue. You made this and other post on multiple sites with out merit. Your engine is not toast! Your issues with your engine, with the existing information are in our opinion a result of your own actions. Originally in good faith when I read your post on these sites, I offered to take in your engine and evaluate the problem. I have never done this for anyone. You refused to send your engine to me and took it to your dealer for repair. Apparently the repair was not to your satisfaction. You believed that your dealer would do a better job than us; you were worried about your precious riding time. Now you have been down in our opinion much longer than if you would have taken our gracious offer.
You commented that you have tried to contact us two times yesterday but no response. I personally have made three attempts to contact you today to no avail, thus the reason for the email. Our voice mail messages state that we will return your call within twenty-four business hours. This is an acceptable service level agreement and I am well within the commitment time. Every time you have made a post requesting service I responded promptly. Sir, SBM prides its self in offering superior customer service to a market that was left for dead.
In conclusion we believe that in our opinion had you researched the product in which you purchased and followed the rules demanded by that product, you would not be having the issues you are now. You have personally offended me and for this I have no desire to assist you with your self-inflicted issue that at one time I would have happily remedied for you. My offer no longer stands. In our opinion your actions of malice and intent to inflict negative press without merit is a feeble attempt to have someone else pay for your mistake. I encourage you to seek support elsewhere or to reinstall your valued "stock" engine and to sell your SBM 450 to a person that will understand and appreciate the hard work and effort that we place in to our engines.
Sincerest Regards,
Dustin E. Lunde
General Manager
South Bay Moto
310-784-7690
webamster@southbaymoto.com
This gentleman never contacted us by phone he only made posts misquoting us and making a demand by email that we do everything for free and pay for his shipping too. Fact: Sand purchased an engine third party that had been originally sent to us destroyed, in a time when parts were unavailable. The components were repaired with the prior owners approval. He was cautioned on the forehand that the repairs might not hold. Fact: Sand purchased a $3000 engine and never cared to contact us to acquire support, maintenance, or care information about the product. Fact: Sand did not use our map because of an email from ? that stated and I quote "don't run they're map, it sucks". Our map has altered fuel and timing to prevent the 12:5/1 compression ratio from causing the engine to self-destruct. There are two people I would trust to design an alternate map, MAZ and Scooter from Optimum. I am currently working with MAZ to design maps for our engines. I highly doubt that either of them sent that email to sandstorm. If you don't use our map you take a chance on destroying your engine it's simple logic. We take no responsibility for this. Fact: Sand has misquoted us "we stand behind every motor we build" was never broadcasted, displayed or promoted by any one here at SBM. We do not offer a warranty on our services. We openly state this. We have never sold any service by misrepresenting a warranty policy. We do offer a start-up warranty and that is all. Our warranty is that we have never lost an engine to date. Please email me if you desire a copy of our start-up warranty. Opinion: Sand has generated this post in an attempt to force SBM to pay for his mistake by buying his silence. We will not back down to black mail. Note: Any customer using an unapproved map in our engine kits should contact me to discuss alternate mapping solutions. We do intend on developing better maps and new products to offer you. Currently I have shifted our focus from R&D and placed a priority on process development for quicker turn around times. I believe this is more important to our customers. Statement: In our opinion Sand has been very inappropriate in his business dealings with SBM we do not desire to service this customer in any way regardless of the payment method. We feel that there is a serious disconnect between he and SBM, we prefer that he would do his business elsewhere. Although we try to please every customer it is not always possible. Offer: To prove that we care about our customers and strive to provide the best possible service, I personally offer to the new buyer of sandstorm??????????????????s ATV we will make all needed repairs to the Comp IV free of charge. We will cover all parts, labor, and shipping costs for normal ground shipping. The buyer must provide identification and legal purchasing documentation. This is an offer of good faith, no scams please.
Finally, I want to state on behalf of SBM that we encourage opposition in these forums as long as it is researched and merited. I welcome all requests and complaints. I spend much time here learning what Cannondale owners want and how we as a company can better serve you. These internet forums can be useful tools if used for the purpose of good. If misused they can also be extremely damaging.
Jason Farrar, please contact me at your convenience to discuss your issue and get it remedied ASAP.
EMAIL TO SANDSTORM 10/08/2003:
Henry,
We do everything we can to satisfy our customers and to provide them with the best possible service and services. I have evaluated your situation and have multiple comments to make on your request.
Garry had ridden more than 5 hours on that motor when you purchased it from him. Additionally, Garry's engine was a complete disaster from the time it was sent in. We had to repair, replace and machine almost every component on that engine. We did this in a time when parts were scarce for all Cannondale owners. Considering the circumstances I believe it to be done in a timely manner. Garry was a very appreciative and understanding customer we valued his business.
Your third party purchase is none of our affair except for when you decided to bring us into it. I have no knowledge of you or Garry or what was done to the engine by you or he. We build quality, dependable racing engines. We do not install them into your machines nor do we maintain them for you. Your choice of fluids, maps, maintenance schedule, etc. is beyond our control. Once the engine leaves our building it is out of our control and becomes your liability. We broadly advertise this. Had you purchased the engine through us you would understand this. We do not offer any warranty, or guarantee. There is not an engine builder in their right mind that will offer a warranty on a competition-racing engine. We do not, and we state this before you decide to purchase any service through us allowing you to make a decision about your purchase.
Our "words of reliability" stand true! They come from the many satisfied customers that we have provided services to. These customers understand these machines and they understand what we do and us. They love and appreciate the power, the service and the dependability that goes with it. I will again reiterate we have never lost an engine. Your issue is not an engine malfunction! Your issue, as it appears, is that you have not used the correct map that came from us. We are the only ones that have this map. If you bought an engine from someone else you do not have the correct map, there is no way to transfer this map with out it coming directly from us. You are the only person we have ever emailed a map to. Our engines are designed to work with a map we created. This map has altered timing and fuel delivery to prevent the engine from self-destructing. Detonation caused by incorrect timing values is responsible for your issue. For this we are not at fault, as well we are not bound to fulfill your unreasonable demands.
When we sell an engine we give the customer the option on what stage to buy, we offer a solution to accommodate everyone. Gary decided to buy our competition race engine. This engine has won races nation wide. It is designed for closed coarse competition racing. It runs on the ragged edge to provide the most power anyone has ever pulled from this engine including the factory. It is one of the most powerful four stroke engines in its class. Gary knew this, had you done your do diligence on SBM you would have also known this. Regardless, when you are using a tool of this magnitude you must follow the rules. The rules consist of break in, mapping, fluids and maintenance. With the information I have regarding your issue, you have broken the rules causing detonation and damage to your beryllium alloy valve seats. This is causing your valves to come out of adjustment frequently. You must break in the engine properly, you must use full synthetic oil with maximum lubricity, you must use our custom map, and you must maintain your vehicle on a regular basis. If you do not follow these rules your engine will malfunction. When we sell an engine we also sell the support to go with it. Again had you done your do diligence you would have known this.
Finally, I do not appreciate your demands and what I consider to be negative press in the chat forums. Your posts are unrealistic, and out of context. You posted negative things with out ever speaking with me. Your post topic "SB 450 is toast.. " is untrue. You made this and other post on multiple sites with out merit. Your engine is not toast! Your issues with your engine, with the existing information are in our opinion a result of your own actions. Originally in good faith when I read your post on these sites, I offered to take in your engine and evaluate the problem. I have never done this for anyone. You refused to send your engine to me and took it to your dealer for repair. Apparently the repair was not to your satisfaction. You believed that your dealer would do a better job than us; you were worried about your precious riding time. Now you have been down in our opinion much longer than if you would have taken our gracious offer.
You commented that you have tried to contact us two times yesterday but no response. I personally have made three attempts to contact you today to no avail, thus the reason for the email. Our voice mail messages state that we will return your call within twenty-four business hours. This is an acceptable service level agreement and I am well within the commitment time. Every time you have made a post requesting service I responded promptly. Sir, SBM prides its self in offering superior customer service to a market that was left for dead.
In conclusion we believe that in our opinion had you researched the product in which you purchased and followed the rules demanded by that product, you would not be having the issues you are now. You have personally offended me and for this I have no desire to assist you with your self-inflicted issue that at one time I would have happily remedied for you. My offer no longer stands. In our opinion your actions of malice and intent to inflict negative press without merit is a feeble attempt to have someone else pay for your mistake. I encourage you to seek support elsewhere or to reinstall your valued "stock" engine and to sell your SBM 450 to a person that will understand and appreciate the hard work and effort that we place in to our engines.
Sincerest Regards,
Dustin E. Lunde
General Manager
South Bay Moto
310-784-7690
webamster@southbaymoto.com
Dustin please say your customers say your map sucks. That's what I told you in the email I sent you. Saying you don't know who it's from is not being honest here.. This motor doesn't even have 20hrs on it for healls sake. It is broken in w/ some additonal hrs on it and that's it.. You almost make it sound like this motor has a 100hrs on it or something. I have been honest the whole time..How could I possibly know your map sucks if I've never ran it.. 
You did tell me you stand behind every motor you build no matter who owns it.. I didn't just make that up.
Doesn't matter now. Those that have a motor from you will back you up if they're happy. An idiot can see that. Those that don't have a motor will draw their own conclusion. I also have gotten more Pm's saying they are disappointed w/ hp numbers, though you do get more then just hp performance.. These are your customers saying this not mine, so if you want to get down and dirty I can play too.. Would you like me to post the email's for you DUSTIN!!!!! Of course I would never in your wildest dreams tell you who they are. Oh by the way I run 85 octane and use two stroke premix in my tranny.. Now post this flame in the other forum, because this is a what I call a flame.. You should of just fixed it and wrote it off as a bad business expense, oh you're going to, just not w/ me...:deal: You'll do it for free now, well duh, you gotta cover your arse somehow DUSTIN!!
You did tell me you stand behind every motor you build no matter who owns it.. I didn't just make that up. Doesn't matter now. Those that have a motor from you will back you up if they're happy. An idiot can see that. Those that don't have a motor will draw their own conclusion. I also have gotten more Pm's saying they are disappointed w/ hp numbers, though you do get more then just hp performance.. These are your customers saying this not mine, so if you want to get down and dirty I can play too.. Would you like me to post the email's for you DUSTIN!!!!! Of course I would never in your wildest dreams tell you who they are. Oh by the way I run 85 octane and use two stroke premix in my tranny.. Now post this flame in the other forum, because this is a what I call a flame.. You should of just fixed it and wrote it off as a bad business expense, oh you're going to, just not w/ me...:deal: You'll do it for free now, well duh, you gotta cover your arse somehow DUSTIN!!I believe it is time to step in on this one. Please no slamming on this site. I am not taking anyone's side on this matter. I am not going to delete this post unless a bunch of negative post's keep coming.
I do know Sand has had some problems with his motor: NOT GOOD
I do hope SBM has tried diligently to help him with the problem.
I would like to know the hosest truth about the motor, and the remedy for the problem.
Sand: I know you don't want to part it, but how much for your motor, in exchange for a new stocker (non hydraulic clutch)?
I do know Sand has had some problems with his motor: NOT GOOD
I do hope SBM has tried diligently to help him with the problem.
I would like to know the hosest truth about the motor, and the remedy for the problem.
Sand: I know you don't want to part it, but how much for your motor, in exchange for a new stocker (non hydraulic clutch)?