I have to totally agree about engine power vrs winning. I think I have proven that no matter how much power I have I can lose a drag race to any quad. In racing its takes a well setup chassis ,hp and a rider to win. I think what your trying to say is we are dynoing 60hp and you think the quad is only 45 as it is driven . Fact is I know my moto max dynoed 49.9hp and we finish tuned it as Ive been racing it to 48 with the quiet core and spark arrester.
My SAS dynoed at 55hp and is still at 55hp as it has been driven for the last year because nothing has changed. It just has paddle tires instead of knobbies.
In fact the latest batch of 468's I built that all were at 55 to 57 hp were just as they will be at the track. Those guys all run with the cyclones and fmf exhausts.
Whenever dyno a new engine I always tune with the intake and exhaust that the quad will be running with just so they are in perfect tune. Otherwise what would be the point of making a special map for the wrong configuration.
I will say I cannot give or endorse a lot of my maps to anybody else because they are made for each engine in the dyno room as my engines are almost always unique even to each other.
if you go back and look at all my dyno posts you will see the power numbers and the mods . We cant really post all of the dyno runs as there are at least 25 to 50 for each engine. I just try to get the most important ones that show what how each mod affected the curves.
Say for instance the 460 had 4 mufflers tested out. The open fmf pulled 55.5 the quiet core fmf 56
The chambered tractor muffler only had 47hp and the straight through one topped out at around 53. I have since modded the straight through one and will retest to see if I can make a $20 muffler perform as good as the ultimate $200 titanium. I have a feeling it will be within a horse .
If anyone doubts our testing then come to a group ride after the dyno day and see for yourself.
I was discussing with Tim recently just how many Dales out there actually have 50 ,55 and 60 hp. Unfortunatly I think we counted just a handfull at 55 and only a dozen or so that were above 50. But consider this . 2 years ago there was no amount of money that could get 45 hp or better on a dale. Now it can be done easily with just a real port job on a stock engine. Thats all because of every one whos is thinking outside the box and contributing continually to R@D. Thats a big list of names.
So ya think ya need a stroker crank eh?
QUOTE (thedeatons @ Dec 28 2006, 05:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hey, and thanks for the intuitive reply to my posting....
I guess I am still a little concerned... I mean, don't get me wrong, once again, I love the testing... A lot of this seems for naught though, as dyno runs do not translate into winning... For example, you mentioned that the quiet core would be removed after that run, before being trail ridden. If it were me, I would run my bike on the dyno exactly as I planned to ride it at a particular venue, so I knew exactly what I had and was not fooling myself.
I suppose a stator interrupt switch would be neat, but not for a mere 1hp.... I don't know, our quads are not Winston Cup Qualifiers, or Top Fuel dragsters with major sponsor dollars riding on 1/4 mile. They are awesome off road vehicles, that lose much of their power to wheelspin or pulling a fat rider.... I love the dyno numbers because it shows that proper tuning of air and fuel is being done and therefore more power is accomplished, but at the same time, I think that Dyno King does not mean fastest guy/quad up the hill or around the track...
I hope this doesn't sway your testing or offend you, I am just thinking out loud:)
I guess I am still a little concerned... I mean, don't get me wrong, once again, I love the testing... A lot of this seems for naught though, as dyno runs do not translate into winning... For example, you mentioned that the quiet core would be removed after that run, before being trail ridden. If it were me, I would run my bike on the dyno exactly as I planned to ride it at a particular venue, so I knew exactly what I had and was not fooling myself.
I suppose a stator interrupt switch would be neat, but not for a mere 1hp.... I don't know, our quads are not Winston Cup Qualifiers, or Top Fuel dragsters with major sponsor dollars riding on 1/4 mile. They are awesome off road vehicles, that lose much of their power to wheelspin or pulling a fat rider.... I love the dyno numbers because it shows that proper tuning of air and fuel is being done and therefore more power is accomplished, but at the same time, I think that Dyno King does not mean fastest guy/quad up the hill or around the track...
I hope this doesn't sway your testing or offend you, I am just thinking out loud:)
My quad was dynoed exactly how I ride it. No "tricks," stator pluged in. It made 59rwhp and 39rwtq. I use it everytime I ride. The torque is amazing...
So you dont think 1 hp is worth the effort. Tell that to the guy who buys a $1200 titanium bolt kit to shave 5 pounds of his quad. Or $600 aluminum axles.magnesium hubs, $700 exhaust systems ect. When your neck and neck for 1st place in a dash for cash I guarantee if a stator interuptor button was on the bar it would be getting used even if he only thought it might make the quad faster.
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thedeatons
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Excellent replies by all.... Wistech, your post at the top of the page made absolute sense, and I applaud you for all your time and effort.
I too also believe that when you are racing with top of the line equipment in a absolutely points/money critical race, every little bit counts, and I hope I never sounded like I did not believe that. I am just trying to be realistic, and consider the small amount of Dales that are actually ridden that way, where their riders NEED that extra .33 hp to win...
We all enjoy having extra ponies around. I am chasing my friends Dales right now, just trying to get that little edge.... I never meant to sound like I didn't need it or want it, just that I thought that we should be testing with bikes as they are run on a daily basis. It is good to see some people pipe up that they ARE being dynoed and ridden that way.... Continue on, and don't worry about me!!
I too also believe that when you are racing with top of the line equipment in a absolutely points/money critical race, every little bit counts, and I hope I never sounded like I did not believe that. I am just trying to be realistic, and consider the small amount of Dales that are actually ridden that way, where their riders NEED that extra .33 hp to win...
We all enjoy having extra ponies around. I am chasing my friends Dales right now, just trying to get that little edge.... I never meant to sound like I didn't need it or want it, just that I thought that we should be testing with bikes as they are run on a daily basis. It is good to see some people pipe up that they ARE being dynoed and ridden that way.... Continue on, and don't worry about me!!
QUOTE (wistech @ Dec 28 2006, 09:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
So you dont think 1 hp is worth the effort. Tell that to the guy who buys a $1200 titanium bolt kit to shave 5 pounds of his quad. Or $600 aluminum axles.magnesium hubs, $700 exhaust systems ect. When your neck and neck for 1st place in a dash for cash I guarantee if a stator interuptor button was on the bar it would be getting used even if he only thought it might make the quad faster.
That's not what I meant at all. Every half a horsepower is worth it. I figure by running a non oring chain, and the smallest rear sprocket I can, that's a half of a horsepower. Now unplug the stator and that's close to one rearwheel horsepower saved. I know that works, I was the one that unplugged your stator at the dyno and was suprised by the results myself. Good find, John.
I was trying to show "thedeatons" that Tim has produced some monsters which make that kind of power all the time. Basically you could ride my bike all day that way. My bike wasn't set up just to get a good dyno number. I'm very happy that it did so well, but this is the way I ride it, right down to the gas I brought from my local gas station. I didn't run it on oxygenated gas or try to do anything that would hopefully swell the numbers if it meant it would jeopordize the reliability/ridablility. Once again, I have to thank you, John, and also Tim, Steve, Doug and many others for this monster I have now. I'm watching intently to see what will happen next with the Dual exhaust and a different cam.
P.S. I think your bigbore motor would be good for drag racing.
I'm glad the deatons brought up the points he made about not real world horsepower. I was wondering the same thing,but now after hearing wistechs reasons it makes perfect sence.I love the dyno section and love to see all the progress that Wistech and Timbo are making. Keep it up! I want the 65 hp Dale which looks to be coming soon. If it never happens looks like I'll have to settle for a measly 60. Does anyone have any charts of Wades new motor setup I hear its supposed to be kick butt from cannondaler posts,but am starting to wonder if its BS. I'd also like to see some charts of other motors too like champion or blackwidow.Anyone ever dyno one yet?
QUOTE (wistech @ Dec 28 2006, 11:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Sorry wanablaze I wasnt responding to you there.LOL I agree about it for drags though. You know its getting close to a year since i ordered a 495 . At this rate I will break 60hp on one of these little motors before I ever get a big dog. We just need to keep the new ideas flowing.
I took the moto out around the yard on Christmas eve. It's sitting in the barn now, you're welcome to come ride it. No snow here, though!
Krahez1,
I believe Blackwidow bought an engine dyno, which is different than a chassis dyno, but still cool nonetheless. I have not seen charts posted from any of the others.
QUOTE (KRAHEZ1 @ Dec 28 2006, 11:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Does anyone have any charts of Wades new motor setup I hear its supposed to be kick butt from cannondaler posts,but am starting to wonder if its BS. I'd also like to see some charts of other motors too like champion or blackwidow.Anyone ever dyno one yet?
Hearsay dyno results are always awsome. I thought C27 downloaded all the dyno charts from Mikes cycle . Maybe he can post some . I only have about a thousand dale files. Nothin from other quads. I do believe there is only a banshee and a crf engine that has ever dynoed higher than the dales . wanablazes 495 is within a pomy of the 520 crf.