Big dog dyno time

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cdsracer · #51 Post by **cdsracer** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 4:56 pm

I threw all of the ones I had away...

Reality Check: this is obviously not a contagious epidemic, just an issue of substandard tuning that doesn't show up unless the engine is run REALLY hard for a LONG time.

A little trip to the dyno can save $ and grief, I think we can all agree on that?

wayneschofield · #52 Post by **wayneschofield** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 7:50 pm

I can't believe people would spend a whole load of $ on a motor and NOT dyno it....?

kdeal · #53 Post by **kdeal** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 8:05 pm

QUOTE (cdsracer @ Dec 18 2007, 11:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Reality Check: this is obviously not a contagious epidemic, just an issue of substandard tuning that doesn't show up unless the engine is run REALLY hard for a LONG time.

A little trip to the dyno can save $ and grief, I think we can all agree on that?

Everyone, please read what he saying. The biggest factor is the running hard part listed above. These guys run in the sand and are running 5th gear wide open. That will kill any motor that is not properly tuned. But, that would not be due to a rich (or lean) condition off of idle. It would be a map issue or an injector flow number that is off. The map the guys used at the dyno Sunday was a proven map for the exact same motor done by Timbo. They found a rich condition on all 5 motors, leading one to believe that the map was calibrated for a motor that needed more fuel. A guess was mentioned that it could have been a map made for oxygenated (sp) fuel. This would account for the difference mentioned above even with the same motor. But, thanks to C27 for doing a quick map adjust across the board they had a safe place to start.

cannondale27 · #54 Post by **cannondale27** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 2:48 am

Yes I agree not worth taking chance. Even gas changes can be huge. Dyno/AFR what type of gas you are running don't be switching from one type to another. Meaning 110 race gas vs pump gas or Oxygenated unless you have a map for the specific gas and don't take any chances with old gas either. I don't know what is different in last few years but all the gas sure seems to go bad quicker. That said lets talk about the charts. Low peaks were dissappointing but ignoring that look at the differences there. Stroker 505 vs stock stroke 450, even though peak is almost same its obvious in real world the stroker would dominate.[attachment=5178:Stroker_...k_stroke.jpg]

cannondale27 · #55 Post by **cannondale27** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 3:07 am

And how about this one? This is Wannablazes dad's 495 stroker vs Wistech's 505 notice the almost complete elimination of the famous Cannondale dip? Some of this was from tuning but most was from the cam timing. The +4 deg intake Cam Timing might hurt peak hp not sure of that yet but it definitly improves the Cannondale dip.[attachment=5179:Cannondale_Dip.jpg]

cannondale27 · #56 Post by **cannondale27** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 3:27 am

This is where nothing was adjusted but Ignition timing. It has a very big effect on AFR. Will lean it out with more timing exactly where you make changes in ignition map. Was adjusting in 2 deg increments, got lazy and did 4 deg in one crack since we were gaining all along. Ended up losing power. Found was within 1 deg of max after backing up. So if you adjust timing you also need to adjust your fuel at same time to find gains. Gets to be very time consuming.[attachment=5180:Timing_AFR.jpg]

cannondale27 · #57 Post by **cannondale27** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 3:39 am

Latest runs at Mike's Cycle to date.[attachment=5181:Dec07dyno.zip]

wistech · #58 Post by **wistech** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 5:05 am

Looks like Tim was right the duals are worth a couple extra on the top end. The lowend for the high lift cams will need a whole new map like the 470 from earlier this year. The map for Tims 505 did not work at all. The power loss from Josh's map was even worse. Now that the duals are proven when I get the stainless steel race sets built we can spend some time tweaking a map just for these two mutants.

wistech · #59 Post by **wistech** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 6:01 am

As far as to what is going on at the dyno . I am at a loss. I'm not going to comment of the situation at Mike's recently as I don't have all the info. Here are all the quads from Sunday. The brown line is Neil's 468 from last year. Hmm if there is nothing wrong I guess it is a waste of time to go with bigger engines. One thing we did not do this time is go for max hp at all cost. This was a quick test session for the duals. Had we had time we could have done the fun stuff and I'm sure 60hp would have been broken but we were down to the wire. Next month when the engines are broke in we can pour in a little of the hot gas, pull the air filters off and go for records.

cannondale27 · #60 Post by **cannondale27** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 12:39 pm

Really though only place the 468 did better is from 8500-10000 and then by less than 1hp. Wanablazes dad's 495 stroker beat that by 3hp or more from idle all the way up to the 8500. That motor would beat the 468 by a lot in acceleration. Every gear would pull. Only way that 468 would win is if held wide open for long enough that it could catch up. So nothing to be ashamed of here. Do think it should have been more drastic a diff though. Investigation is definitly needed or it means we went backwards. Will make a call today to see if the load setting was turned on. Good possibility since tuning link uses load to tune. Otherwise we need to do a gas test. UPSMan we need your pump gas quad.