02 C440 Heavy steering?

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ScramblerXLE · #1 Post by **ScramblerXLE** » Tue Feb 23, 2016 7:04 pm

Hey guys,

I bought JoeDirt's C440, Saturday and just got a chance to ride it last night. At a glance, the engine is fantastic and super strong, handling seems decent but I had very little time in a flat field last night before the sun went down, so I'll reserve judgement for now on the ProAction revalves.

About the only glaring negative that I noticed in the 10 minutes that I rode the bike was that off the gas either with the brakes or just with engine braking pulling the front end down, it was a BEAR to turn the bars. I ride a 2013 KTM 250 XC and a 2006 KLX250S and both of them steer VERY light by comparison, ESPECIALLY on the brakes. The primary use of this bike will probably be single track and trail riding up in northern MI sand. So I need it to work in the tight stuff. I put it up on a stand and turned the bars lock to lock and felt what I would call significant 'stiction' or drag. It was very smooth and didn't feel like grit in the bearings, but it definitely took more effort than I'm used to to turn the bars with no weight on the front end. I considered moving the forks in the triple clamp, either down to get some weight off the front wheel, or up to decrease trail and help the bike turn in, but either option felt like a bandaid with as much drag as I'm feeling.

Kdeal tells me that early bikes had a triple lip seal that could cause some significant drag, but there's no reason that mine should have that seal. I haven't had a chance to tear into it yet and I'm obviously bummed because I have to imagine that this question has already been addressed on Cannondaler, but since those forums appear to be gone forever, I figured I'd start a post here in case anyone has a quick fix. If not, I'll tear into it and see what I can sort out and be sure to update the topic along the way.

Either way, I'm loving the new bike and with a few little fixes, I'm hoping I can do a good bit of trail riding on it this year and hopefully get some helmet cam videos and such posted to YouTube as there is a critical lack of bike content out there, and that needs to be fixed. haha!

Thanks guys!

ScramblerXLE · #2 Post by **ScramblerXLE** » Wed Feb 24, 2016 6:55 pm

Quick Update: last night, wile playing with mapping, I backed off the pinch bolt under the upper triple clamp. It helped a bit, but not much, so obviously something else is dragging. I've got a leaking left fork seal anyway, so I'll be pulling the forks off the bike and servicing them, and I'll probably just pull the headset apart then as well and see what shape it's in. Unfortunately, with the GNCC season about to start and a business trip to NC next week, It will probably be 2-3 weeks before I touch it again...

bigfoot17 · #3 Post by **bigfoot17** » Wed Feb 24, 2016 11:51 pm

My 440X has some stiff steering. I backed off the top triple nut and it did get better. I did change fork oil ,but never took the whole steering stem apart.
When the bike is on a stand, you have to use more force than normal to move the front wheel side to side. Free steering dampner.

polyesterpig · #4 Post by **polyesterpig** » Sat Mar 05, 2016 7:46 pm

In the early days, we were putting 22mm offset triple clamps for single track riding. If you can find some 22mm offset early Honda crf450 triple clamps, they fit with a few simple mods. Steering locks need to be trimmed. Simple to do.

who_gives_a6 · #5 Post by **who_gives_a6** » Sun Mar 06, 2016 11:37 pm

When I had my E440 I ran into the same issue. I ended up revalving the forks for me, new stem bearings, lowering the triple clamps, as well as backing off the triple nut as previously stated. It never quite got as light feeling as the Jap bikes I had but was much better. I thought the front end felt much better lowering the triple clamps too. But that's personal preference.

ScramblerXLE · #6 Post by **ScramblerXLE** » Mon Mar 07, 2016 7:05 pm

So, just a quick update on all this as I've been traveling for a bit over a week, but I did get a chance to ride the bike right before I left and found that the triple clamp must have just been a bit tight. It steers MUCH easier now after putting it up on a stand, backing the nut off until there was significant play, then tightening it back down until that play just barely went away. The forks need serviced anyway, so I'll be removing everything in the coming weeks and I'll go through the headset and clean and grease it and throw new bearings at it if they're needed.

It still steers a bit heavier than my 2013 KTM 250 XC but that bike is the lightest steering thing I've ever ridden. It itself was a big improvement over the 2009 250 XC that it replaced, so there may not be much of anything to do about it. I mean, it is probably 30 lbs lighter than the dale, so it shouldn't be too surprising that you can feel that weight in the tight stuff. I guess worst case, if I take it single track riding and find that it's still too heavy, I can start looking for a set of old 20mm triple clamps and give that a try.

I'm only hesitant to do that because the KTMs worked the other way, going from an 18mm to a 20mm offset made it steer lighter and track in the ruts better, then they went from 20mm (like my '09 was) to 22mm (like my 2013 is) and the steering effort got even lighter and the bike just seems to follow ruts on it's own now haha! I know that those little changes just affect so many things that it's hard to predict the affect it will have, but going from a 24mm offset to a 20mm offset SHOULD increase trail which SHOULD make the bike less willing to steer. In addition, it SHOULD put more weight over the front tire, which SHOULD make the heavy steering even worse, and that's exactly what happened when I played with offsets on the KTMs, but I've heard from several folks that this was not the case on the early CRF450Rs with which the Dale's share some front end geometry. I guess bottom line is, I'll get everything serviced and test on it and check back in and let everyone know what I've found.

This bike has turned into a significant distraction. But at the end of the day, that's really why I bought it right? Either way, I'm having a great time just thinking about all this stuff haha! Can't wait to get it out on the trail this spring!

Z4J · #7 Post by **Z4J** » Tue Mar 08, 2016 4:55 pm

Leave at least a few toys for the rest of us Walt :-)

ScramblerXLE · #8 Post by **ScramblerXLE** » Wed Mar 16, 2016 1:51 pm

Update again!

I took the forks off and serviced them, replacing the seals with some SKF seals for a 2003 CR125R. They were not EXACTLY direct replacements, but do fit. I???ll keep an eye on them and once I know if they work or not, I???ll put up another post with the part numbers and what I did.

The headset bearings were a bit ratty. The top bearing was a little rusty, gritty, etc. The bottom bearing was not near as bad, but neither seal was great either and the head tube itself was full of dirt and grit. I???ve cleaned everything and ordered a set of bearings and seals from Dave, which will be here today. Hopefully it will be back together in time for me to get a little seat time on it this weekend!

bigfoot17 · #9 Post by **bigfoot17** » Wed Mar 16, 2016 10:56 pm

A long time ago, I remember a Husky owner putting a piece of PVC the same diameter as the inner race ,from the top bearing to the bottom bearing. Then he drilled a hole in the steering stem for a zerk fitting. The PVC helped limit the amount of grease in the stem. Only greasing the bearings and a small part of the stem. I hope this makes sense.
I put a zerk fitting on my DR350 and just filled the whole stem with grease. Seamed to help and kept the water out.

polyesterpig · #10 Post by **polyesterpig** » Thu Mar 17, 2016 4:31 am

It is very important that you set your rear SAG to get the bike to turn correctly. For some reason the Cannondale is very sensitive to the rear sag being set correctly.