starting problems
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cannondale27
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- Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:41 pm
I would like to thank everyone! for all the helpfull information. It is great to have a place where you can get the answers that you need. I live in Kentucky and the quad has been down for about 4 weeks, claas900.
I have talked to the guy that put the engine back togther and I think we are going to try to take the motor back out and check the timing. Thanks kdeal for the pic. Aslo, Thanks wisetech for the quick response. And again, thanks everyone!
I have talked to the guy that put the engine back togther and I think we are going to try to take the motor back out and check the timing. Thanks kdeal for the pic. Aslo, Thanks wisetech for the quick response. And again, thanks everyone!
QUOTE (kdeal @ Feb 2 2007, 08:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Here we go....
Look at the little window on the idler gear bracket. You can see a hole there and part of the gear through the window. If you line this hole up on the idler, before putting your cams in and match your timing marks, you will notice after the timing chain is installed you will have a little crescent shaped piece of the idler gear in the upper right corner of the window. If the gear is visible in the left side of the window you are a tooth off. The marks will still look aligned to the casual engine builder. This will cause you much swearing and labor as you have to drop the motor and pull the side cover to get to it again.
Look at the little window on the idler gear bracket. You can see a hole there and part of the gear through the window. If you line this hole up on the idler, before putting your cams in and match your timing marks, you will notice after the timing chain is installed you will have a little crescent shaped piece of the idler gear in the upper right corner of the window. If the gear is visible in the left side of the window you are a tooth off. The marks will still look aligned to the casual engine builder. This will cause you much swearing and labor as you have to drop the motor and pull the side cover to get to it again.
Kdeal I am confused about the cresent shaped window? I am new at this. Can you explain it again. I want to get the timing right this time.
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cannondale27
- Posts: 0
- Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:41 pm
QUOTE (331saleen @ Feb 7 2007, 10:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Kdeal I am confused about the cresent shaped window? I am new at this. Can you explain it again. I want to get the timing right this time.
PLEASE CHECK THE FUEL DISCONNECTS FIRST! like Doug said it could be easy! Any time on a fresh rebuild the timing always comes to mind first though! Once you have done it wrong once, you will never forget it. Look at the little hole (window) in the picture next to the words & arrow "camshaft idler gear". Look closely and you will see a dark area & a crescent shaped piece of gear in the upper right corner of window. When you go to line up the timing marks as shown (with the TDC bolt in place), it should look like the picture. (Notice that the cam gears are identical both intake and exhaust but you use different timing marks on each (look at the dots). You can have the timing off several degrees in either direction (you are actually off a tooth on the lower crank timing gear) and it could still look like the marks are lined up. A builder who does this a lot doesn't have to look at the hole they can tell by looking at the angle of the lobes with the mark lined up to know if it's out of time. Us dummies should look at the window to tell. I am getting better though!
QUOTE (kdeal @ Feb 8 2007, 02:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
PLEASE CHECK THE FUEL DISCONNECTS FIRST! like Doug said it could be easy! Any time on a fresh rebuild the timing always comes to mind first though! Once you have done it wrong once, you will never forget it. Look at the little hole (window) in the picture next to the words & arrow "camshaft idler gear". Look closely and you will see a dark area & a crescent shaped piece of gear in the upper right corner of window. When you go to line up the timing marks as shown (with the TDC bolt in place), it should look like the picture. (Notice that the cam gears are identical both intake and exhaust but you use different timing marks on each (look at the dots). You can have the timing off several degrees in either direction (you are actually off a tooth on the lower crank timing gear) and it could still look like the marks are lined up. A builder who does this a lot doesn't have to look at the hole they can tell by looking at the angle of the lobes with the mark lined up to know if it's out of time. Us dummies should look at the window to tell. I am getting better though!
I am the one that has built this motor, thanks Kdeal I can see it clearly now how that the timing can be off. I guarantee that this is our problem.
QUOTE (lenrob @ Feb 9 2007, 03:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I am the one that has built this motor, thanks Kdeal I can see it clearly now how that the timing can be off. I guarantee that this is our problem.
I know it sucks, I have done it myself (ask Wistech) but you will love the sound of that motor cranking over oh so easily when you get this straightened out. The easiest way to do it right is simple.
1) Pull the spark plug out to make turning the motor over easy.
2) The timing marks don't line up after the motor has been cranked over a few times, so the following is quicker than spinning the motor over and over again.
3) Put the crank at top dead center (TDC) with the TDC bolt in the cartridge plate. (this keeps the crank from turning while you are getting everything done)
4) Remove the crank nut and take off the timing chain lower cog. With the chain off turn the cams and idler and see if you can get them lined up as in picture (pay good attention to the types of marks on the cam gears themselves, there are 3 different kinds of marks on each gear). If you can't get them lined up easy, pull the cam caps and lift the cams up enough off the idler gear to line all marks up right.
5) With the cam gears lined up to the idler and the complete circle in the window (no crescent shape yet), put on the timing chain with the lower gear inside the chain while slipping it on the splined crankshaft. The gears will move a hair while the lower timing gear is going on (the crescent shape will now magically apear in the window) If the crescent shape is in the upper right corner all is good. The crescent shape is the idler gear itself with most of the "hole" showing except for a little crescent piece of the gear around the hole.
6) Torque everything down and you are good to go. Be careful of the water pump seal on the end of the intake cam. Make sure it seats good in the groove and has a little sealant around the outer edge of the seal to valve cover. I had to reset the timing once and slapped everything back together recklessly, only to have to drop the motor again to reset and seal this seal (the one with the groove on it). Talk about pi$$ed! Like I said been there done that.
Good Luck
QUOTE (kdeal @ Feb 9 2007, 02:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I know it sucks, I have done it myself (ask Wistech) but you will love the sound of that motor cranking over oh so easily when you get this straightened out. The easiest way to do it right is simple.
1) Pull the spark plug out to make turning the motor over easy.
2) The timing marks don't line up after the motor has been cranked over a few times, so the following is quicker than spinning the motor over and over again.
3) Put the crank at top dead center (TDC) with the TDC bolt in the cartridge plate. (this keeps the crank from turning while you are getting everything done)
4) Remove the crank nut and take off the timing chain lower cog. With the chain off turn the cams and idler and see if you can get them lined up as in picture (pay good attention to the types of marks on the cam gears themselves, there are 3 different kinds of marks on each gear). If you can't get them lined up easy, pull the cam caps and lift the cams up enough off the idler gear to line all marks up right.
5) With the cam gears lined up to the idler and the complete circle in the window (no crescent shape yet), put on the timing chain with the lower gear inside the chain while slipping it on the splined crankshaft. The gears will move a hair while the lower timing gear is going on (the crescent shape will now magically apear in the window) If the crescent shape is in the upper right corner all is good. The crescent shape is the idler gear itself with most of the "hole" showing except for a little crescent piece of the gear around the hole.
6) Torque everything down and you are good to go. Be careful of the water pump seal on the end of the intake cam. Make sure it seats good in the groove and has a little sealant around the outer edge of the seal to valve cover. I had to reset the timing once and slapped everything back together recklessly, only to have to drop the motor again to reset and seal this seal (the one with the groove on it). Talk about pi$$ed! Like I said been there done that.
Good Luck
1) Pull the spark plug out to make turning the motor over easy.
2) The timing marks don't line up after the motor has been cranked over a few times, so the following is quicker than spinning the motor over and over again.
3) Put the crank at top dead center (TDC) with the TDC bolt in the cartridge plate. (this keeps the crank from turning while you are getting everything done)
4) Remove the crank nut and take off the timing chain lower cog. With the chain off turn the cams and idler and see if you can get them lined up as in picture (pay good attention to the types of marks on the cam gears themselves, there are 3 different kinds of marks on each gear). If you can't get them lined up easy, pull the cam caps and lift the cams up enough off the idler gear to line all marks up right.
5) With the cam gears lined up to the idler and the complete circle in the window (no crescent shape yet), put on the timing chain with the lower gear inside the chain while slipping it on the splined crankshaft. The gears will move a hair while the lower timing gear is going on (the crescent shape will now magically apear in the window) If the crescent shape is in the upper right corner all is good. The crescent shape is the idler gear itself with most of the "hole" showing except for a little crescent piece of the gear around the hole.
6) Torque everything down and you are good to go. Be careful of the water pump seal on the end of the intake cam. Make sure it seats good in the groove and has a little sealant around the outer edge of the seal to valve cover. I had to reset the timing once and slapped everything back together recklessly, only to have to drop the motor again to reset and seal this seal (the one with the groove on it). Talk about pi$$ed! Like I said been there done that.
Good Luck
Thanks again Kdeal for the info I will get this thread printed off and get to work on this thing. We will keep you posted on the outcome.