engine rebuild......need a lota fast help
hi, im new to this website. i have just sent my 03 cannondale speed engine into ATK to be rebuilt. i plan on getting the head flowwed, the 450 kit, and just about any other upgrade they offer to make more power. when i was talking to the machanic, he said the stock cannondale crank after their mods was good for "50-50some hp" (those were his exact words). does 50some mean 51 or does it mean more around 59? theres a big differance. i want the engine to last since im getting it proffesionally rebuilt. does anyone have any experience with Falicon cranks? how much power differance will it make if i get a stroked Falicon? would it be worth the 900 bucks in the long run to have a better crank? what are some alternatives to get more reliability and power? please help soon because i gota decide. im looking to get around 55 hp out of the engine..........and how many hours shuld i expect to get out of this engine?
-
thedeatons
- Posts: 0
- Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:41 pm
You should be just fine in my opinion, although I have not done any stroker testing. Mine is a Timbo 450 with his port work. ~55hp (probably 53) on a rebuilt crank (as in Z400 bearing equipped crank). I would imagine their "mods" will yield you ~49hp though assuming you are using stock airbox, and that figure is at the rear wheels. I cannot imagine their port work being as extensive as Tim's, and stock airbox, velocity stack, and unmodified throttle body will keep it from getting well over 50hp.... The big hp guys can feel free to correct me if I am wrong here.... You should be okay with the ATK rebuild, but it's a shame you didn't ask a bit sooner, because I personally would have sent you in a different direction. Much of this hp stuff is personal preference and pure dyno numbers though, so others may feel differently........... Good luck!
You need to demand a Z400 bearing be installed on the crank. I wouldn't have personally sent it to ATK but its a bit too late now. I woudlnt' expect anything over 50 coming back from ATK. Who knows, you may be pleasently suprised though.
Now, what kind of hp to expect. These numbers are averages, not the highest, not the lowest. As we all know there are exceptions to the rule out there.
The stock crank, head and airbox will yield you just under 40hp prob 38hp.
A minor port job and short air horn which is what you would get from them will yield in the low-mid 40s.
A Timbo stroker crank will add just a little hp but mainly torque.
The falicon will so the same as the Timbo hp wise but little less torque wise.
A more aggressive port job (cord at BW) will yield you up to ~50hp with open air box and good mapping.
Timbo's port job with open airbox and mapping can yield over 50 prob around 52-53 at the most.
As for how many hours you will get out of the engine. Its a crap shoot. No one can predict or gaurantee hours on a sport vehicle. There are too many factors. How well you take care of it. Do you do maintence on the engine, not just the oil? Do you do yearly tear downs and inspect things? There are a few items to be inspected on these things depending on the number of hours you run it. Will the crank wear out if its got a Z400 bearing in it? NO. Can you suck dirt and blow the piston? Sure. All you can do it button the motor up the best you can. At that point with a little luck and good maintanance you will be set for years.
Now, what kind of hp to expect. These numbers are averages, not the highest, not the lowest. As we all know there are exceptions to the rule out there.
The stock crank, head and airbox will yield you just under 40hp prob 38hp.
A minor port job and short air horn which is what you would get from them will yield in the low-mid 40s.
A Timbo stroker crank will add just a little hp but mainly torque.
The falicon will so the same as the Timbo hp wise but little less torque wise.
A more aggressive port job (cord at BW) will yield you up to ~50hp with open air box and good mapping.
Timbo's port job with open airbox and mapping can yield over 50 prob around 52-53 at the most.
As for how many hours you will get out of the engine. Its a crap shoot. No one can predict or gaurantee hours on a sport vehicle. There are too many factors. How well you take care of it. Do you do maintence on the engine, not just the oil? Do you do yearly tear downs and inspect things? There are a few items to be inspected on these things depending on the number of hours you run it. Will the crank wear out if its got a Z400 bearing in it? NO. Can you suck dirt and blow the piston? Sure. All you can do it button the motor up the best you can. At that point with a little luck and good maintanance you will be set for years.
well, i just the engine in today. crap. i ish i wulda came here sooner.......i just foun d the site today and ive been researching for a few months now. im not sure how i did that. the guy at atk said he's seen rebuilds from anywhere from $1300 to $3800. either way, with shipping, and deposit, theres $420. the head being flowed will cost me $100. the 450 kit is around $700. so bare minimum, im looking at around 2 grand. ive read about "tim" on this site. who is he and what does he charge for rebuilding, porting, cranks, ect. does he have a website? would i be better off cutting my losses and going with him? what im looking for is reliable quad that will kick the crap outa most of the 700r's, yfz 450's, and ds650's. since they havent done anything on the engine, id just be out $420. is it worth switching companies in the long run?...........thanx for all the help so fast
-
thedeatons
- Posts: 0
- Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:41 pm
Oh my gosh man, that is awesome that it has not shipped!! Tim or Timbo or Timbomoose is Tim Matczak of Matczak Machining, he now owns this website and is available in the vendor forums. PM me if you need his number. He is a 100% stand up guy, we always have great conversations and he goes out of his way to help people, much like the folks at Black Widow. Tim can get you a piston, full portwork (from velocity stack to exhaust header) and rebuild your crank for less than $1000 easily, assuming you just sent those pieces to him individually. I have not had him rebuild an entire engine for me, but he is very particular....
I personally would do it myself (as I have done before). Take your time and use the forum. If you tear the head down you can have Black Widow check every head component from cams to keepers for free, and tell you if you're out of spec. They even have a nice pricey valve spring tester to check all eight of your springs for proper tension. If so they have all the parts and ship same day. While they are checking the components you can be sending the head to Tim for his Gen 3 portwork, along with your crank for a rebuild. Call Canniboomer (Dave Muller) for Blue Bolts to put it back together so that nothing comes loose, and you are good to go! It is so satisfying knowing you have done it yourself and done it in the best way possible! Once again, PM me for contact numbers if needed... Good luck!
I personally would do it myself (as I have done before). Take your time and use the forum. If you tear the head down you can have Black Widow check every head component from cams to keepers for free, and tell you if you're out of spec. They even have a nice pricey valve spring tester to check all eight of your springs for proper tension. If so they have all the parts and ship same day. While they are checking the components you can be sending the head to Tim for his Gen 3 portwork, along with your crank for a rebuild. Call Canniboomer (Dave Muller) for Blue Bolts to put it back together so that nothing comes loose, and you are good to go! It is so satisfying knowing you have done it yourself and done it in the best way possible! Once again, PM me for contact numbers if needed... Good luck!
QUOTE (thedeatons @ Jun 15 2007, 02:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Tim can get you a piston, full portwork (from velocity stack to exhaust header) and rebuild your crank for less than $1000 easily, assuming you just sent those pieces to him individually.
Uh deaton....you may want to check on those prices again. All prices have gone up since the good ole days. Tim will be on here later to give prices.
Threads like this make me sick. If your engine builder makes hp claims they cant back up with dyno sheets then run run run.
Tell them you want a $200 discount for every hp that they make less than their estimate and get it in writing. I doubt ATK has ever built an engine that was even at 50 let alone 55. I dont care how much over priced parts were dumped into it.
Tell them you want a $200 discount for every hp that they make less than their estimate and get it in writing. I doubt ATK has ever built an engine that was even at 50 let alone 55. I dont care how much over priced parts were dumped into it.