Canniboomer Direct Intake

Message

cdaleman440 · #71 Post by **cdaleman440** » Wed May 31, 2006 3:03 pm

i am vary interested in this but i have a queastion would i have to do any map changes to run this setup and is there still a wait to get them
Thanks- Austin

newcdale02 · #72 Post by **newcdale02** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 4:00 am

QUOTE (newcdale02 @ May 9 2006, 03:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Dave, thanks for the quick shipping. Got the filter on Sat., now the motors bogging @ approx. 3/4 max RPM. Anyone near Jackson, MI with a D&M?!?!

fuel filter!!!

Happyboy · #73 Post by **Happyboy** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 6:28 pm

That really won't do anything mounted above the throttle body. The purpose of the line is really supposed to supply a vacuume for the fuel regulator. A vacuume sucks the valve open and supplys a lower fuel pressure without the regulator having to do the work. Since at idle we don't need full pressure it releives stress on the system. To get a vacuume you need to put the hose below the throttle body where the vacuume is actually at. The motor sucking air through a very small opening in the throttle body when the butterfly is closed, that is the vacuume.

banzairx7 · #74 Post by **banzairx7** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 6:46 pm

The factory setup did not adjust fuel presure with the engine vacuum. That is what I tried to replicate. This hook up will only supply filtered air to the regulator and vent lines. It would adjust fuel as the air filter clogs though.

It's not uncommon on newer cars to not see the fuel pressure referenced to vacuum. It's just as easy to compensate in software. I'm assuming that's what cannondale did.

QUOTE (Happyboy @ Jun 8 2006, 02:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That really won't do anything mounted above the throttle body. The purpose of the line is really supposed to supply a vacuume for the fuel regulator. A vacuume sucks the valve open and supplys a lower fuel pressure without the regulator having to do the work. Since at idle we don't need full pressure it releives stress on the system. To get a vacuume you need to put the hose below the throttle body where the vacuume is actually at. The motor sucking air through a very small opening in the throttle body when the butterfly is closed, that is the vacuume.

Happyboy · #75 Post by **Happyboy** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 8:11 pm

How will it adjust fuel as the air filter clogs? The air hookup does not indicate how much air is flowing. The throttle body % does that. That regulator also does not control more or less fuel. It stays at a constant pressure for fuel usage areas that that pressure matters.

banzairx7 · #76 Post by **banzairx7** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 8:34 pm

QUOTE (Happyboy @ Jun 8 2006, 04:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How will it adjust fuel as the air filter clogs? The air hookup does not indicate how much air is flowing. The throttle body % does that. That regulator also does not control more or less fuel. It stays at a constant pressure for fuel usage areas that that pressure matters.

As the filter clogs(it will have to be VERY clogged) there will be a vacuum in the entire intake tract. The ecu will see this as a lower ambient pressure and the FPR will see a vacuum and reduce pressure, reducing fuel flow.

wistech · #77 Post by **wistech** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 10:40 pm

There is a possibilty that the air sensor in the ecu might compensate for variations in air filter restriction but the fuel pressure regulator will not be affected at all. It is designed to work off of manifold vacum below the throttle plate . Cannondale did not use the regulator the way it was designed and just vented it into the airbox where you will never see vaccum low enough to change the fuel pressure l. Even with an absolutly clogged filter .

banzairx7 · #78 Post by **banzairx7** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 11:02 pm

QUOTE (wistech @ Jun 8 2006, 06:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There is a possibilty that the air sensor in the ecu might compensate for variations in air filter restriction but the fuel pressure regulator will not be affected at all. It is designed to work off of manifold vacum below the throttle plate . Cannondale did not use the regulator the way it was designed and just vented it into the airbox where you will never see vaccum low enough to change the fuel pressure l. Even with an absolutly clogged filter .

According the parts diagrams the ecu, regulator and small vent lines are all hooked together and routed into the airbox inside of the filter. So they would see vacuum if the filter clogged up in the stock configuration. REF: 03 atv parts diagrams page 40

I wouldn't say that the regulator was hooked up incorrectly. Not unless we can verify it. I know if I hooked my regulator to engine vacuum the engine would have a very hard time idling. I have an adjustable regulator and it went out of adjustment the 1st ride. Pressure dropped by 6psi and the idle got very lumpy and it was hard starting. If the regulator saw full vacuum at idle, assuming it is 15-20" of vacuum and the regulator has a 1:1 rate, that would drop the fuel pressure by 7-10psi.

Happyboy · #79 Post by **Happyboy** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 11:47 pm

Many of the later models have the 4 way T in it that does see the tranny side vacuume. All our "vacuume" lines do is connect the system to vent. There is virtually no vacuume there. If you want to try it then take a baby dropper/needle and put a hose on it and connect it to the ECU. Then with it idleing pull the plunger back. See what happens. I haven't. Maybe it will change the idle.

wistech · #80 Post by **wistech** » Fri Jun 09, 2006 1:03 am

QUOTE (banzairx7 @ Jun 8 2006, 06:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

According the parts diagrams the ecu, regulator and small vent lines are all hooked together and routed into the airbox inside of the filter. So they would see vacuum if the filter clogged up in the stock configuration. REF: 03 atv parts diagrams page 40

I wouldn't say that the regulator was hooked up incorrectly. Not unless we can verify it. I know if I hooked my regulator to engine vacuum the engine would have a very hard time idling. I have an adjustable regulator and it went out of adjustment the 1st ride. Pressure dropped by 6psi and the idle got very lumpy and it was hard starting. If the regulator saw full vacuum at idle, assuming it is 15-20" of vacuum and the regulator has a 1:1 rate, that would drop the fuel pressure by 7-10psi.

Well our regulator is hooked up incorrectly .(according to the way all other efi systems are designed) But Cannondale did not ever intend to use it as anything other than a constant pressure device . It just came with a hose fitting that needed to be vented. So they just piped into a clean source of air. Remapped the fuel system for constant pressure and that was it.
When dealing with Vaccum it is measured in inches of mercury below the throttle plate. Above the plate it is measured in inches of water for such things as air filter restriction which is way less .

I have hooked up the stock regulator on the SAS and it indeed will function with a real vaccum source. Fuel pressure will drop about 5psi. On my adjustable regulator with the harley injectors it was vital to have fuel pressure drop to lean out the bottom end . The mc500 map could not be leaned out enough with the mill tool and that did the trick to get a good afr.