First trip to the dyno...

Message

m_mcgranahan · #31 Post by **m_mcgranahan** » Sat Feb 28, 2009 10:06 pm

QUOTE (Wayne Schofield @ Feb 28 2009, 06:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Given the cams, you'll probably want to give it some more advance off the bottom, up to about 5k, and take some fuel out down there as well because it won't scavenge the cylinder as well.

Conversely, you'll probably want to add some fuel through the upper mid-range and at the top end and take some advance out too, especailly given the compression.

HI Wayne thx for. The info. I am planning on using timbos elliminator or terminator map. Do I need to advance the timming and defuel down low and vice versa on top a that map. With those cams am I going to have a top end monster that is weak down low? I'm riddingmostly motocross so low end is important to me

wayneschofield · #32 Post by **wayneschofield** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 10:33 am

I haven't looked at Tim's maps to know how they compare, so I can't advise on that really.

The cams are a little longer than stock with a bit more lift. I'd have thought mid-range and top end would be what you want for Motocross riding and that's what you should get from the cams. Some idle quality and bottom end will likely be lost but it shouldn't ba an animal, especially given your timings too.

thedeatons · #33 Post by **thedeatons** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 4:52 pm

Those maps should get you started, but when you get there you will see the AFR all over the place, simply because each engine is different. The last one we did with one of those maps made another 2hp by the time we were finished, and had a very flat AFR. It only took about 5 runs with fuel adjustments, then we tried about 3 runs for timing.....

m_mcgranahan · #34 Post by **m_mcgranahan** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 5:21 am

QUOTE (thedeatons @ Mar 1 2009, 04:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Those maps should get you started, but when you get there you will see the AFR all over the place, simply because each engine is different. The last one we did with one of those maps made another 2hp by the time we were finished, and had a very flat AFR. It only took about 5 runs with fuel adjustments, then we tried about 3 runs for timing.....

Thanks for the Advice. How long did tnt take for eight runs? When adjusting cells is a higher number equal to more fuel? Any thing else I should know about editing cells? Anyone have a step by step guide , tht would be great!
God bless...

Mark

thedeatons · #35 Post by **thedeatons** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 6:01 am

Approximately 5 minutes per run assuming you are tuning and editing/sending a map.

Yes, a higher number equals more fuel, likewise in the ignition table a higher number equals more timing advance.

I would start by adjusting 1/2 a gram at a time, just to see what that does for you regarding the AFR curve. You are goaling for a straight AFR line in the safe zone, nothing else matters. After you get it straight try adding fuel to the entire line to richen the bike at 100% throttle. If you get less hp then try leaning out the entire line. Find out where your max hp number is then move to timing. Once you adjust timing you may have to retweak your AFR, as fueling will be affected.

Make sense?

#1 flatten the AFR
#2 adjust AFR rich or lean to obtain max hp
#3 adjust timing to obtain max hp
#4 recheck AFR to ensure it is still a flat line and safe

Don't shoot for a hp number, shoot for the best AFR. You are going there to make the engine safe, not win a hp bet...

m_mcgranahan · #36 Post by **m_mcgranahan** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:48 am

Thanks for the help. I am working on understanding the way the cells all work. I think I get it so far just curious if someone cal shed light on how to figure out what to adjust? (IE sy they tell me I am rich at 5k rpm what should I do?) How do I know how much to go timing to adjust in the maps once fuel is done? WHat is the goal of the timing adjustments? (EI how do I know I am going the right way on the timing?)

Thanks

God bless...

Mark

QUOTE (thedeatons @ Mar 2 2009, 06:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Approximately 5 minutes per run assuming you are tuning and editing/sending a map.

Yes, a higher number equals more fuel, likewise in the ignition table a higher number equals more timing advance.

I would start by adjusting 1/2 a gram at a time, just to see what that does for you regarding the AFR curve. You are goaling for a straight AFR line in the safe zone, nothing else matters. After you get it straight try adding fuel to the entire line to richen the bike at 100% throttle. If you get less hp then try leaning out the entire line. Find out where your max hp number is then move to timing. Once you adjust timing you may have to retweak your AFR, as fueling will be affected.

Make sense?

#1 flatten the AFR
#2 adjust AFR rich or lean to obtain max hp
#3 adjust timing to obtain max hp
#4 recheck AFR to ensure it is still a flat line and safe

Don't shoot for a hp number, shoot for the best AFR. You are going there to make the engine safe, not win a hp bet...

m_mcgranahan · #37 Post by **m_mcgranahan** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 4:08 am

Hi,

SO I went to the dyno today and I hit 54hp 34lb ft of torque. Nice guess thedeatons! (I was starting to hope I could ht 55hp ;-) but it didn't happen this time. )The AFR is in the safe range all end to end (I was lean on the top and the idle)

BTW I used the Terminator map, 2100 flow, 1.5 offset Wayne's beta cams, 13;1 450cc cp piston, 110i 107e cam timimg, timbo porting, slicks, had an o-riged chain, fmf ti exhaust 91 octane pump gas, aprox 2300ft elevation

I cant get my scanner to work but I will post it when I do.

So, what would you guys est. the gains from race gas? What else can I do to get more hp and tq w/o loosing bottom end?

Thanks for the help guys.

God bless...

Mark

m_mcgranahan · #38 Post by **m_mcgranahan** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 4:37 am

heres a pic

thedeatons · #39 Post by **thedeatons** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 6:49 am

That looks nice! Good job for your first time! What do you have your rev limiter set at? A good idea is about 500rpm beyond where your power drops off. Little bit of overrev helps sometimes in turns, but no reason to redline way beyond where power drops off.

That Cannondale dip is very pronounced on your chart. From what I understand three degrees of cam timing seperation will fix that. Our last few did not have it at all. The cams were around 110/107 and 111/108...

You could do some other things if you want, but I suggest seeing how you like 54hp first, then go from there. That thing will be a handful in the dirt.

cannondale27 · #40 Post by **cannondale27** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 12:28 pm

Thats awesome!You could get up to 3hp with the right gas and timing changes.