Timbo ported; which MAP?
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Catmochanic
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Hello everybody, I have a 02 Cannibal with 5hrs. on the engine. It has had all of the updates done internally, the Z400 bearing, a dirtike airbox, and porting performed by Timbo. It is still the stock 432cc displacement. My problem is that I have recently performed a TPS adjustment (using the D&M), and I have noticed that now it backfires once in awhile on decel. I am looking to upgrade from the stock Cannibal MAP that that is currently installed, wondering if anybody has had good results from another MAP with this same combination? I was hoping to make it to the group ride this weekend and swing by Tim's and tune it on the dyno, but I am unable to get away this weekend, any suggestion's would be helpfull.
I am kind of suprised that you got five hours out of it with a stock map in there and porting... Not sure what a bike air box is, we call that an open air filter setup. If it just started doing the poping on decel you might have done something wrong on the tps setup or it was so far out of the norm that for some reason it ran ok for that five hours. Timbo usually recomends the trinium map for setups like yours depending on what exhaust you have. Put that in the search box and it is posted here somewhere, make sure you change the settings to what you want not what the map automatically populates and check the box before you send the new map.
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Catmochanic
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- Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:41 pm
QUOTE (rayspeed @ Sep 11 2012, 06:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I am kind of suprised that you got five hours out of it with a stock map in there and porting... Not sure what a bike air box is, we call that an open air filter setup. If it just started doing the poping on decel you might have done something wrong on the tps setup or it was so far out of the norm that for some reason it ran ok for that five hours. Timbo usually recomends the trinium map for setups like yours depending on what exhaust you have. Put that in the search box and it is posted here somewhere, make sure you change the settings to what you want not what the map automatically populates and check the box before you send the new map.
I appreciate the help 'rayspeed'. I have seen the trinium map on here before, but wasn't sure if that was correct for my application? My understanding of the modified air box I have on it is that it is a dirtbike air box with a modified/ shorter intake air horn? When I adjusted the TPS, I set it to as close as I could to the current file numbers. I wasn't sure if that was correct or not, but I figured that is what the ECM wanted to see? I am running the stock "toaster" exhaust on it. I will do a search again on the trinium map, and try that one. I appreciate help on this subject, it is probably old knowledge to a lot of people on here, but it is new to me. Thanks in advance for any additional help!
QUOTE (Catmochanic @ Sep 11 2012, 06:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I appreciate the help 'rayspeed'. I have seen the trinium map on here before, but wasn't sure if that was correct for my application? My understanding of the modified air box I have on it is that it is a dirtbike air box with a modified/ shorter intake air horn? When I adjusted the TPS, I set it to as close as I could to the current file numbers. I wasn't sure if that was correct or not, but I figured that is what the ECM wanted to see? I am running the stock "toaster" exhaust on it. I will do a search again on the trinium map, and try that one. I appreciate help on this subject, it is probably old knowledge to a lot of people on here, but it is new to me. Thanks in advance for any additional help!
My understanding of the bike airhorn is that you gain 3HP! if true that is the cheapest gain around.
Oh thats what you meant! I forgot all about that mod and I even did it once! Kind of an odd combination to have a ported head with a stock exhaust and somewhat stock airbox so trinium may not be quite right but a stock map would be out with porting but not sure I have a good suggestion.
For one thing you should do the throttle cal by the book which means backing the idle screw all the way down and making double sure that the blade is closing all the way even if you have to back off up on the thumb throttle. You read that voltage and then open it all the way up making sure it is opening all the way and read that and use those numbers and send the throttle cal.
Maybe somebody else will have a good map suggestion.
For one thing you should do the throttle cal by the book which means backing the idle screw all the way down and making double sure that the blade is closing all the way even if you have to back off up on the thumb throttle. You read that voltage and then open it all the way up making sure it is opening all the way and read that and use those numbers and send the throttle cal.
Maybe somebody else will have a good map suggestion.
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Catmochanic
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I know it has been about 2 1/2 month's since I last posted, just started messing with my Cannibal again and I am confused on which way I need to go with the settings in the D&M to get favorable results? Cold it takes a couple of starts for it to stay running, the idle is steady at 2150 rpm. Hot it starts right up on the first try and also has a steady idle. Snapping the throttle when hot I see very slight black smoke out of the exhaust (which seems acceptable to me)? Trying to get it to stop popping on decel (occasionally), and to start a little easier when cold. Things don't seem to be too far off because it runs strong. The popping on decel started after I did the TPS calibration, before that it started right up cold and did not pop on decel. I performed the throttle calibration by the book; I backed out the idle screw all of the way (the cam for the throttle cable actually was touching the idle adjustment screw housing) and I made sure the throttle cable still had some slack in it. I saved the readings to the ECM. I also made sure the the TPS would read 100% when the throttle was pushed all the way forward. The number's I "received" from the ECU are:
TPS closed: .26
TPS open: 4.48
T/B leakage: 0
Injector flow rate: 2400
Offset: 1.65
TPS @ 2150rpm (engine hot): 2.8%
My offset seems high (compared to what I have read on here), I set it to 1.50, nothing changed in how it idled, so I lowered it to 1.20, it started to surge from 2150-2400. I set it back to 1.60 because I figured the surging was because it was too lean? I tried adjusting the flowrate to 2300 to see if that had any effect on the idle and it started to surge again from 2150-2500, and it seemed to "hang" a little longer at 2500 before it came back down. I am trying these adjustments in order to get my offset # lower, and also raise my TPS into the 3-5% range. I am still running the stock Cannibal MAP. Any suggestions would help?
TPS closed: .26
TPS open: 4.48
T/B leakage: 0
Injector flow rate: 2400
Offset: 1.65
TPS @ 2150rpm (engine hot): 2.8%
My offset seems high (compared to what I have read on here), I set it to 1.50, nothing changed in how it idled, so I lowered it to 1.20, it started to surge from 2150-2400. I set it back to 1.60 because I figured the surging was because it was too lean? I tried adjusting the flowrate to 2300 to see if that had any effect on the idle and it started to surge again from 2150-2500, and it seemed to "hang" a little longer at 2500 before it came back down. I am trying these adjustments in order to get my offset # lower, and also raise my TPS into the 3-5% range. I am still running the stock Cannibal MAP. Any suggestions would help?
It is the cannibal map that is giving you fits because you are ported so it is lean when the throttle is at the idle position. They tend to need more fuel at idle when ported. Another thing that can cause this is a small exhaust leak at the head pipe... make sure that is still tight.
I have not seen a map for the combination you have but a a canibal map is definatly going to give you the problems you have, in fact I am a little suprised that you got it as close as you did.
Be carefull what you wish for in trying to tune these things to stay lit off on the first crank every time when cold because if they do I would bet that they are too rich at cold idle. I have a friend that had some sort of aversion to pushing them even a few feet and would start one up just to pull out of a trailer... so I tuned them that way and within 50 hours the rings were gone and they were smoking.
So that said... I am not sure what I would do if I was you other than tossing the exhaust for an hmf and putting on an open air filter. You would definatly be better off with a moto map at this point so you might try that. If that does not get you where you want these maps are for ported motors with open air filters and aftermarket exhausts so one of them should get you at least in a better direction. With the full mods I end up with offset around 1.0 give or take .05 and flow rate around 1900-2100 so you might end up closer to .95 offset and a 2200+ for a flow rate but worth a shot.
I have not seen a map for the combination you have but a a canibal map is definatly going to give you the problems you have, in fact I am a little suprised that you got it as close as you did.
Be carefull what you wish for in trying to tune these things to stay lit off on the first crank every time when cold because if they do I would bet that they are too rich at cold idle. I have a friend that had some sort of aversion to pushing them even a few feet and would start one up just to pull out of a trailer... so I tuned them that way and within 50 hours the rings were gone and they were smoking.
So that said... I am not sure what I would do if I was you other than tossing the exhaust for an hmf and putting on an open air filter. You would definatly be better off with a moto map at this point so you might try that. If that does not get you where you want these maps are for ported motors with open air filters and aftermarket exhausts so one of them should get you at least in a better direction. With the full mods I end up with offset around 1.0 give or take .05 and flow rate around 1900-2100 so you might end up closer to .95 offset and a 2200+ for a flow rate but worth a shot.
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Catmochanic
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Thanks rayspeed for the advice, I will try one of the moto maps, as well asther maps you suggested and see how things go? I know that this is kinda a weird combination, but I think the plans for this quad we're to eventually have an open intake and better exhaust? I purchased this quad from Brad77, and while at his shop I noticed he had all kinds of other Cannondale goodies at his disposal. I appreciate you steering me in the right direction, guess I will have to add a couple of things to my Christmas list (which will probably be funded by myself).... 
. Looks like it might be next year before I finally get to ride this thing, but I would rather do it correctly now so I don't have to worry about it later. Add in the fact that I will be moving back to Ohio (who moves to Ohio, thought everybody was moving away),just kidding. Hopefully, I will have everything sorted out in time for the Majestic Trails Ride next year, and I can use the knowledge of the other people there to dial it in. So, anybody that lives in Ohio, I look forward to doing some riding with you next year, I will be living about 45 minutes east of Cleveland (Painesville Township area). Hope everybody has a safe and blessed Holiday!
. Looks like it might be next year before I finally get to ride this thing, but I would rather do it correctly now so I don't have to worry about it later. Add in the fact that I will be moving back to Ohio (who moves to Ohio, thought everybody was moving away),just kidding. Hopefully, I will have everything sorted out in time for the Majestic Trails Ride next year, and I can use the knowledge of the other people there to dial it in. So, anybody that lives in Ohio, I look forward to doing some riding with you next year, I will be living about 45 minutes east of Cleveland (Painesville Township area). Hope everybody has a safe and blessed Holiday!QUOTE (rayspeed @ Dec 2 2012, 11:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It is the cannibal map that is giving you fits because you are ported so it is lean when the throttle is at the idle position. They tend to need more fuel at idle when ported. Another thing that can cause this is a small exhaust leak at the head pipe... make sure that is still tight.
I have not seen a map for the combination you have but a a canibal map is definatly going to give you the problems you have, in fact I am a little suprised that you got it as close as you did.
Be carefull what you wish for in trying to tune these things to stay lit off on the first crank every time when cold because if they do I would bet that they are too rich at cold idle. I have a friend that had some sort of aversion to pushing them even a few feet and would start one up just to pull out of a trailer... so I tuned them that way and within 50 hours the rings were gone and they were smoking.
So that said... I am not sure what I would do if I was you other than tossing the exhaust for an hmf and putting on an open air filter. You would definatly be better off with a moto map at this point so you might try that. If that does not get you where you want these maps are for ported motors with open air filters and aftermarket exhausts so one of them should get you at least in a better direction. With the full mods I end up with offset around 1.0 give or take .05 and flow rate around 1900-2100 so you might end up closer to .95 offset and a 2200+ for a flow rate but worth a shot.
I have not seen a map for the combination you have but a a canibal map is definatly going to give you the problems you have, in fact I am a little suprised that you got it as close as you did.
Be carefull what you wish for in trying to tune these things to stay lit off on the first crank every time when cold because if they do I would bet that they are too rich at cold idle. I have a friend that had some sort of aversion to pushing them even a few feet and would start one up just to pull out of a trailer... so I tuned them that way and within 50 hours the rings were gone and they were smoking.
So that said... I am not sure what I would do if I was you other than tossing the exhaust for an hmf and putting on an open air filter. You would definatly be better off with a moto map at this point so you might try that. If that does not get you where you want these maps are for ported motors with open air filters and aftermarket exhausts so one of them should get you at least in a better direction. With the full mods I end up with offset around 1.0 give or take .05 and flow rate around 1900-2100 so you might end up closer to .95 offset and a 2200+ for a flow rate but worth a shot.
I played with the trinium map today ohh what a difference.
1.2 off set
2200 on flow
.3 leakage
I still think my ilde air valve is bad. I'm back firing on decel. Am I to lean still?