Yes it does.Does it have issues??
If this fix is used it should also be heat treated.
New flywheels`- need input and help
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twisted_chassis
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- Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:41 pm
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thedeatons
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- Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:41 pm
I can understand your position. You have never had trouble, so why address it. The fact is though that there are people having trouble. We have spun at least 5 in our group over the last year. Most of those were on 432s. We now have a couple 450s in the group, and one of those spun. The pinning is not working. We put a lot of stock in that and sent Boomer ~11 flywheels to have pinned. To Boomer's credit he is still the only one actively attempting to fix this problem. It seems Wistech has created a great fix, but has only had time to pump out 4 of them.
This has been one of the last few baffling problems our group (of ~13 Dales in the area) is experiencing. First were the cranks. Then there were fouling spark plugs (CR8EIX cured that and I am now a firm believer in 8s). Now there are flywheels. It doesn't matter everyone is having this problem or not, there are enough of us with this problem to consider it an actual problem. I don't think we need to concentrate on who is not having this problem right now, but instead how to fix this problem for when you do experience it. Our rides consist of do-it-alls. We ride hard, play cat-and-mouse, do 5th gear sweepers with the rear end hanging out, jump in all gears, wheelie, drag launch when we're feeling frisky... basically all of the above. We are not casual riders. I invite anyone to come along and ride with us to see that. We do nothing out of the ordinary, except ride really hard, which may in fact be out of the ordinary.
Sorry for the rant. There is a problem, and I am tired of hearing about how other people don't have the problem. Not everyone has AIDS, but we're still looking for a freakin' cure. If you get AIDS one day (God forbid) then you would be very happy to know that people were working on fixing it, just like these flywheels. Cannondale had a poor design, fine, let's fix it, like the cranks.
This has been one of the last few baffling problems our group (of ~13 Dales in the area) is experiencing. First were the cranks. Then there were fouling spark plugs (CR8EIX cured that and I am now a firm believer in 8s). Now there are flywheels. It doesn't matter everyone is having this problem or not, there are enough of us with this problem to consider it an actual problem. I don't think we need to concentrate on who is not having this problem right now, but instead how to fix this problem for when you do experience it. Our rides consist of do-it-alls. We ride hard, play cat-and-mouse, do 5th gear sweepers with the rear end hanging out, jump in all gears, wheelie, drag launch when we're feeling frisky... basically all of the above. We are not casual riders. I invite anyone to come along and ride with us to see that. We do nothing out of the ordinary, except ride really hard, which may in fact be out of the ordinary.
Sorry for the rant. There is a problem, and I am tired of hearing about how other people don't have the problem. Not everyone has AIDS, but we're still looking for a freakin' cure. If you get AIDS one day (God forbid) then you would be very happy to know that people were working on fixing it, just like these flywheels. Cannondale had a poor design, fine, let's fix it, like the cranks.
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wayneschofield
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- Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:41 pm
I have a machine shop prototyping a one-piece flywheel now. They have been on with it for a while and, to be honest, I should have sent a magnetic ring to them a while ago.....
For the moment, we are just machining away a portion of the flywheel to release the magnetic ring. This has to be done very carefully so as not to break the ring. In time I will have new rings made, or bond seperate magnets around the edge inside the flywheel.
I also need to find exactly what the taper is too. It comes out at 7.3 degree half-angle, which seems an odd figure, but it might be '1 in 20' or something like that yet. It could be 7.5 degree inaccurately made....
The centre piece is slightly bigger OD too to allow a better 'grip' on the crank.
I will keep you posted re progress....
For the moment, we are just machining away a portion of the flywheel to release the magnetic ring. This has to be done very carefully so as not to break the ring. In time I will have new rings made, or bond seperate magnets around the edge inside the flywheel.
I also need to find exactly what the taper is too. It comes out at 7.3 degree half-angle, which seems an odd figure, but it might be '1 in 20' or something like that yet. It could be 7.5 degree inaccurately made....
The centre piece is slightly bigger OD too to allow a better 'grip' on the crank.
I will keep you posted re progress....
I've had several conversations now with ATK and they are going to look into making a billet one piece fly wheel. No time line has been set but they have shown interest to me in seeing what they can do to improve on the current design.
I am sending them my spun fly wheel so they are able to see first hand what a spun one looks like. I also have Dan Crower from Crower Power looking at a fix or new design. Only bad thing is that we are in the middle of racing season and that has slowed Crower's process on both projects but with ATK's interest in making a billet flywheel I may be able to bring both together to speed up the process.
I am sending them my spun fly wheel so they are able to see first hand what a spun one looks like. I also have Dan Crower from Crower Power looking at a fix or new design. Only bad thing is that we are in the middle of racing season and that has slowed Crower's process on both projects but with ATK's interest in making a billet flywheel I may be able to bring both together to speed up the process.
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Canniboomer
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- Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:41 pm
Yo Wayne,...yep, the magnet ring will be a challenge, with some trial and error. But it's also an opportunity.... please consider to enhance the magnetic field, rather than just matching it. In collaboration with TrailTech here about increasing our stator output, they claim the flywheel magnet is the limiting factor. With today's magnets, it may be reasonable to go even lighter in magnet weight while achieving more output. To have a complete replacement flywheel would be great, and particularly if we can get more stator output at the same time.
James, I agree that Wistec's full donut style is needed for an already-spun flywheel. But it's still too early to assume that complete removal of the face is required on a sound flywheel, which provides an easily machinable base for a similar sandwich-style of fix (quicker, easier, cheaper). I'm not willing to plow out the entire face of a good flywheel (yet). We have plenty of spun units waiting for the more elaborate fix, but getting those done just takes more time than most of us can give it this season. Anyway, I'll talk with the shop tomorrow, to maybe get things moving a bit faster on Both versions that are languishing over there. If Wistec comes through for us sooner with more volume that will make it out of Wisconsin! LOL, then that would be great also.
James, I agree that Wistec's full donut style is needed for an already-spun flywheel. But it's still too early to assume that complete removal of the face is required on a sound flywheel, which provides an easily machinable base for a similar sandwich-style of fix (quicker, easier, cheaper). I'm not willing to plow out the entire face of a good flywheel (yet). We have plenty of spun units waiting for the more elaborate fix, but getting those done just takes more time than most of us can give it this season. Anyway, I'll talk with the shop tomorrow, to maybe get things moving a bit faster on Both versions that are languishing over there. If Wistec comes through for us sooner with more volume that will make it out of Wisconsin! LOL, then that would be great also.
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thedeatons
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- Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:41 pm
Okay Dave.... It is good to see so many minds working on this. With you (Dave), Wayne, Crower, and the wild card ATK all efforting this problem from different directions we may just see the light. Please keep us all informed on progress. I hope to have something I can trust in my quad by September/October.
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cannondale27
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- Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:41 pm
You know guys it could be just a bunch of little things adding up to this failure.
Taper being made wrong-Lap it in
Balance-Are they all balanced same?If not wont match balance of cranks.Get flywheel balanced.
Mainbearing-Is it good?
Torque-I use a electric impact and red Loctite.Is 35ftlbs as recommended too much?
Taper being made wrong-Lap it in
Balance-Are they all balanced same?If not wont match balance of cranks.Get flywheel balanced.
Mainbearing-Is it good?
Torque-I use a electric impact and red Loctite.Is 35ftlbs as recommended too much?