Its time for crank updates

Post your R&D threads here, what are you working on?
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Jaybr
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#51 Post by Jaybr »

QUOTE
Originally posted by cannondale27
Best bet if you want to see the weights of the crank halves would be to weigh them with the flywheel on and also to add the force of the timing chain tensioner and force needed to rotate the cams because all of those things have to be taken into account.
What I am trying to say here is that even if both crank halves were exactly the same weight the crank would still be unbalanced.It is quite obvious both halves are quite different weights.It is also obvious that there are other forces involved here which is the reason there are two different sized bearings supporting our cranks.


Agreed, which is exactly why we had to send everything that attatches to the crank to Falicon.

But it would be easy enough to weight while it's apart.

one side with the flywheel and counterbalance gear, other side with timing gears.

It would also be nice to see difference on just the parts between the bearings as well.

My theory is that their way off balance, and I'm not all that sure anyone ever even tried to balance them. I know the factory only tried to balance the crank weight to the piston/counterbalance setup.

cannondale27
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#52 Post by cannondale27 »

Yup they are not "balanced" and never will be even with a whole new crank even taking ALL the parts into account there will always be more force from the timing chain on that end of the crank.Only way to get away from that would be to have the valvetrain accuated totally independent from the crank and for that matter to have the clutch and drive totally in line with the crank.Engine makers have fought this for years it is part of the reason why F1 uses pnuematic valves and why some bikes have gear driven valvetrains.What you FEEL as far as vibration is the rotational balance which early cranks,Winky cranks and ATK cranks all had pretty darn close and way better than 03factory cranks.Attempting to balance the crank longitudally such as the Falicons will be is only going to move the forces from one point to another or spread the force out over the entire length of crank depending on where it is moved to.This would be great but our bearings are two different sizes and two different load ratings.Not to mention the case which also has different ammounts of strength in bearing areas.The Main bearings still have to deal with it.Some stock main bearings have failed but it is very few.Cannondale did have engineers with all the latest and greatest engineering programs and did do alot of testing at least early on.I really dont believe that it was ALL wrong or even unacceptable.So why reinvent the wheel?

crashed
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Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:41 pm

cranks

#53 Post by crashed »

I recently purchased a new ATK crank for my 460 SBM mtor that had a bad wrist pin and then the Ti valve broke. So now I have the motor all torn apart again. While waiting to to deside where I should go from here I'd like to upgrade the ATK crank by installing the Z400 rod bearing on it. I also have a '03 stock crank which has a damaged rod ( broke the top of the rod when I was drilling to get the piston off it) and need a new rod installed on it.

Who is doing the Z400 rod bearing upgrade now so thatI can send it out and get both of my cranks updated?

crashed!

cannondale27
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Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:41 pm

#54 Post by cannondale27 »

Go to your local Suzuki,Kawasaki or Arctic cat dealer and order a bearing for a z400 or clones.Then take the bearing and crank to any local machineshop and have them put it in,clean the pin and sync the crank.Gravy!Please take a picture of the bearing in ATK crank and also let us know if you find crud in the pin.You should be set then.Otherwise PM Timbomoose to see if he will do it for you.But the point of all this is you can get it done just like Honda,sukuki or Yamaha cranks locally,quickly and cheaply.

bknight
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#55 Post by bknight »

smile.gif smile.gif just got back my rework crank last night boy is it nice looking
will post pic of it later on. o it is a timbomoose rework smile.gif

bknight
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Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:41 pm

#56 Post by bknight »

http://bikepics.com/pictures/205878/
there it is smile.gif

z400 rod bearing, he made a new rod, and he milled the crank to 02 specs.

Nice work TIMBO!!! :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

should have the motor in about a week. and ill be ready to rip :usa

wistech
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Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:41 pm

Riddle me this one

#57 Post by wistech »

Ok this engine had bad cams but the crank and rod bearing had very littler wear. After pulling the plug out of the crank this is what I find. AARRRGGG:mad:

wistech
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#58 Post by wistech »

Does that scare you into pulling your engine for a new bearing or what?

wistech
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#59 Post by wistech »

There is enough in there to possibly affect balance.

bknight
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#60 Post by bknight »

:eek:
mine was not that bad .yes some but not that bad

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