If you buy stock cams make sure you get the OEM Megacycle cams that were made for Cannondale. These were marked with serial numbers, and the intake cam was silver with black lobes (and serial numbers). These were all 12 hole cams which are the most adjustable.
Otherwise make sure you have Timbo hardness test them in the case that they are not Megacycle cams. Get the 12 hole version if you plan to time them, otherwise it sucks and is sometimes impossible.
When sending some for rework by Crower (or anyone else) you may want to send 12 hole cams for maximum adjustability, otherwise you are shooting yourself in the foot during the cam timing exercise.
Cams...
QUOTE (kdeal @ Jul 29 2008, 12:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Pete,
Why is the motor signing off 1,000 RPM lower than the previous dyno runs?
Why is the motor signing off 1,000 RPM lower than the previous dyno runs?
That is because with the single valve springs we dropped the rev limiter from the stock maps as were my original runs down to 10,800. After those runs I dropped it to 10,500. I wanted to push it a little past what I was going to run everyday so I had a safety margin in there.
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m_mcgranahan
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hI,
I talked to the guy at Crower and he said that his take on our motors is that the valve springs are too stiff and that is why our cams wear out. (He commented that they are sprung so you could run to 12,000 rpm or more which is a good thing in my book to to the rev limiter of 11.5k) He said that the stock setup gave a seat pressure of about 100lbs and that with the single spring you get about 60lbs. I'm not sure I like having to drop the rev limiter, but the extra HP is a nice thing. He did say they do not harden the cams after they regrind them, which did cause me some concern about longevity.
He said as he recalls, their regrinds add about .5mm of lift and 12deg of duration to the cams.
GOd bless...
Mark
I talked to the guy at Crower and he said that his take on our motors is that the valve springs are too stiff and that is why our cams wear out. (He commented that they are sprung so you could run to 12,000 rpm or more which is a good thing in my book to to the rev limiter of 11.5k) He said that the stock setup gave a seat pressure of about 100lbs and that with the single spring you get about 60lbs. I'm not sure I like having to drop the rev limiter, but the extra HP is a nice thing. He did say they do not harden the cams after they regrind them, which did cause me some concern about longevity.
He said as he recalls, their regrinds add about .5mm of lift and 12deg of duration to the cams.
GOd bless...
Mark
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thedeatons
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I don't agree with that after speakign with Timbo at length about cams and their hardness.... I have had a few "soft cams" that wore prematurely. The last time I sent my head to him I had him check the cams, and anything that did not pass his hardness testing was canned.
Call Timbo and ask him how many soft cams he has found on a Rockwell Hardness tester. His brother works at a facility that has one, which is where the testing comes from. There are non-believers out there, but not me, not after seeing the test results.
Timbo also said that about 1 out of 100 Megacycle cams fail the hardness test. I think he had seen 1 crap Megacycle cam before, that's it.
I will take a used Megacycle cam over a new no-name Cannondale camshaft anyday. The fact that Crower does not harden the camshaft is bad in my opinion, as evidenced by some of the other cams people on the forums are making.
To put it simply, if you start with a cam that is not rated at the correct hardness, then rework the lobes, you are still left with a cam that is not rated at the correct hardness.
I know I am beating a dead horse, but call Timbo and ask him about cam hardness..... He could talk for hours.
Call Timbo and ask him how many soft cams he has found on a Rockwell Hardness tester. His brother works at a facility that has one, which is where the testing comes from. There are non-believers out there, but not me, not after seeing the test results.
Timbo also said that about 1 out of 100 Megacycle cams fail the hardness test. I think he had seen 1 crap Megacycle cam before, that's it.
I will take a used Megacycle cam over a new no-name Cannondale camshaft anyday. The fact that Crower does not harden the camshaft is bad in my opinion, as evidenced by some of the other cams people on the forums are making.
To put it simply, if you start with a cam that is not rated at the correct hardness, then rework the lobes, you are still left with a cam that is not rated at the correct hardness.
I know I am beating a dead horse, but call Timbo and ask him about cam hardness..... He could talk for hours.
Yup, sounds about right. Did you talk to Dan?
Look at any dyno charts of a stock motor, HP numbers start dropping big time by the 11.5 mark. You should be shifting anyway. I don't think anyone that has been running the single valve springs has had a cam wear issue as the lighter pressure makes sense that it will be easier on the cam lobes. I would take cam life and higher hp over a higher rev limiter any day.
As for the hardening, I will only send out cams that needed to hard welded so the hardening isn't an issue. There are plenty of junk cams out there that we don't need to be using good stock cams to be reground. They have 50+ years I believe of working with cams so if Dan himself tells me that we don't need to worry about the hardness with his welding process I'm going to take his word for it. My cams, while they may not look the pretiest, have held up great.
Look at any dyno charts of a stock motor, HP numbers start dropping big time by the 11.5 mark. You should be shifting anyway. I don't think anyone that has been running the single valve springs has had a cam wear issue as the lighter pressure makes sense that it will be easier on the cam lobes. I would take cam life and higher hp over a higher rev limiter any day.
As for the hardening, I will only send out cams that needed to hard welded so the hardening isn't an issue. There are plenty of junk cams out there that we don't need to be using good stock cams to be reground. They have 50+ years I believe of working with cams so if Dan himself tells me that we don't need to worry about the hardness with his welding process I'm going to take his word for it. My cams, while they may not look the pretiest, have held up great.
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cannondale27
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QUOTE (thedeatons @ Jul 29 2008, 10:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You may want to consider a lower than stock rev limit with single valve springs. The dual springs are in there due to valve float potential.
Timbo had some insight on that, and mentioned to me what he thought our single springs were rated for (in rpm), but I forget...
What do you mean you are "ready" for cams? You mean you want more power, or your stock cams are going down? Are stock cams out of the question?
Timbo had some insight on that, and mentioned to me what he thought our single springs were rated for (in rpm), but I forget...
What do you mean you are "ready" for cams? You mean you want more power, or your stock cams are going down? Are stock cams out of the question?
For testing purposes I am running single valvesprings in my TiValve motor at 11,500.But the valves are ALOT lighter than stock.No signs of float and no cam wear with stock,Waynes and to be checked yet Timbos intake cam.I believe I also ran the Crowers in there for a shot at 60hp.Must be a chart of that somewhere.I know it was a gain.Remember I have TiValves so DO NOT RUN SINGLE VALVESPRINGS at high rpm without them.
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thedeatons
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cannondale27
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I think if you are going to buy any hardwelded cam you are taking your chances.Everything needs to be ideal for them to survive.Coated buckets are a step in that direction as are minimum spring pressures.It really doesnt pay to test any hardwelded cams since one could easily be different than another along with different areas of the cam itself.Now think about this.There are thousands of other machines running hardwelded cams.Some do have issues but most run very happily.I guess if we cant get Billet we will have to live with a failure rate.
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m_mcgranahan
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Hi,
I was just reporting what he told me. I do know that without a doubt we have had cams that were too soft (and too hard) from the factory, so I disagreed with that point he made. but lowering the rev and getting 5hp would I guess be a nice trade. I have to admit that hard welding does scare me as well. I would prefer good megacycle or other tested cams. I knid of wonder if we couldn't gian 2-3hp by just removing the inner spring on stock cams.
THanks
GOd bless...
Mark
I was just reporting what he told me. I do know that without a doubt we have had cams that were too soft (and too hard) from the factory, so I disagreed with that point he made. but lowering the rev and getting 5hp would I guess be a nice trade. I have to admit that hard welding does scare me as well. I would prefer good megacycle or other tested cams. I knid of wonder if we couldn't gian 2-3hp by just removing the inner spring on stock cams.
THanks
GOd bless...
Mark
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cannondale27
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