Cwr Cams

[banzairx7]

The kibbelwhites have that shim you have to put under them. Is removing that enough to reduce the pressure?

[Happyboy]

Yeah, I can't get how the dang retainers were chewing threw the keepers. Only think I could think of with that is that is happening after the cam is worn so it's slapping is causing them to dig. Were yours worn out when your retainers chewed through? 2 of Devon's were chewed through, one almost all the stinking way. The valve was loose because of how far it had chewed.


Banzairx7, here is my chart of measured with stock valves...As you can see the kibbles are still a little stiffer than stock at full lift but looser at normal height. It just comes down to the spring not being a good fit for the app. If the spring were another .030 taller by itself we could see a better number for the compressed height, but the lift height would still be stiffer. Is that amount stiffer bad? Don't know. We have no numbers to go off of other than the stock spring pressure.


_____comp'd___|___ stock___|___ CWR
_____height___|_____lift____|____lift
_____________|___ height__|___height
_____1.575___|____1.191___|___1.155
-------------------------------------------------

Number of pounds when compressed to the above 3 measurements

stock_______60_____160_____180
spring

KW w/______78_____200_____210
washer

KW w/o_____56_____172_____184
washer

[timbomoose]

****** 1st problem I saw was short valve with huge springs . Told him he said would be fine.Asked about the shim behind the spring and he said it put it right to speck.1st cams saw told him and doug way back in august.After next set I pulled same and the third same.He was told they wore fast and only wanted to make excuses and offered no reimbersement.I asked doug if he ever had a problem with the cams and he said yes at the bigining and greg didn't cover it and blamed it on overheating.Asked greg what hardness they were he didn't know.Asked greg how hard stock cams were he didn't know.Researched myself and found all the wrong and found no research put together in them and looked to be a dead end for money back.Don't you think anyone would send a product back if they were offered reimbersement. Why should I be doing others peoples work and telling them how to do a job they should already be able to do and who charged so much.If greg was so concerned when I told him 100% failure rate why didn't he call.I didn't just call him once.Why would he dish them off on ebay when he knew that setup was bad.Didn't see him answer that ? or about still reimbersing me.If greg wants to help out now great I for one would hold nothing against him and continue purchasing from him.From this post he can now see the GRIEF HE CAUSED and is causing people from just throwing things out. Pull your motor ******!

[timbomoose]

The real bad combo is with the cams.Stock valves or kibble white valves the cams wore fast.I have run the springs myself too and removed.Biggest thing with springs isn't so much as wearing stock cams is that its pull keepers through retainers.So far all the old style(gold color)that I've taken apart had at least two (both on intake side(heavier))and another head on exhaust pulling through the retainer.My other one with the new style wasn't,but had less pressure because valve seats were machined down from previous damage.Steve's cams were still perfect but retainers were puilling through.One motor cams were gone other starting to go all had hrs,so no real proof that these spring will wear faster on stock cams but can make the retainers rip through which is a darn good reason to take them out. CWR cams were known not to hold up in august. Springs just now.

[timbomoose]

Iceracer send up your head and will put stock springs in for you along with anyone else I missed that I sold springs to.

[Smitty911]

Greg: Don't run it pull it. I'll fix it.
Timbomoose: Don't run it pull it.
Wistech: Don't run it pull it.
Happyboy: Don't run it pull it.

Doug: says to go run it, if it breaks he will stand by it.

I will wait till the end of the day on where to send it. But here is what I'm looking at.

Retail Cost:
Stock New Cams 300ish
Stock New Springs 81ish
Stock New Valves 80ish
Stock New Buckets ?????
Return to Stock Labor ????

Please fill in the ?????

I will be pulling my motor today. I have two or more knowledgeable people around that can take the motor apart.

Doug,

I sent you a PM about the balance of the bill, please call me so we can discuss it. I'm still not even mad (disappointed, yes) about this whole thing, so we should be able to work though it.

I'll be in the garage all day taking the motor out.

714-761-5521 Home

Smitty

[wistech]

Smitty you dont need new valves or springs ,the new stock springs dont test any better than used ones so just reuse them with shims. New cams are less than half of what you have estimated. How bad were your originals?

[timbomoose]

After many email,pms,and calls here's some answer to questions

1) cwr cams stock valves or kibblewhite combo.:

Do not run extremely high chance of major engine damage(dropping valves from worn cams,more than likely your top end(valves,springs,collars,cams,and buckets)need replaced for sure decomp

2)Kibble white springs with stock cams:

med to small chance of damage.Some cams are holding up fine others not,biggest concern is keepers pulling through the collar seems to be only gold color old style affected.Have 2 heads checked with about 50 hrs on with springs and one cams gone and retainers pulling through(old style)other head all lobes starting to wear retainers fine (new style)another heads 27's with some hrs cams great retainer pulled half through,another 15 hrs cams goods retainers pulling through old style) and another about 20hrs cams wearing just starting and retainer good new style

3)kibblewhite valves

med risk of damge. Do to being heavier and shorter(higher spring pressure.Have greater chance of pulling through keepers.So far nothing wrong with kb valves but will be doing testing next week to make sure.

[timbomoose]

You can see the risk factor from above. The biggest concern is with the kibblewhite springs is the retainers pulling through and will not happen instantly and so far none have,but looks to be a high potential with old style collars and especially if you have the valve combo.It was enough for me to take them out of all my machines.I still need to do my bike.Cams look as they might be wearing faster not a 100% unless using the other cams.I think class900 said he already ate up 2 sets of cams using kbsprings not positive,maybe he can chime in.

[claas900]

..Your right Tim. Just so ppl know I have two motors.
...One 448,Stock valves,Stock cams KW springs..about 8 hours on motor..Flat cams...Put in new cams its ran about 15 hours,but going to pull it again to check for flat cams.
..Other 478,Stock valves,Stock cams,KW springs..Pulled motor after about 5 hours,cams going flat.