Good point Dave.... Here is an excerpt from another post of mine regarding Wistech's fix:
On another note, I spoke with Wistech yesterday while he was driving through Chicago. He has converted four flywheels to steel so far. They each have six months of abuse on them and are doing great. He uses a lathe to get rid of all the aluminum, then makes a one piece steel hub/disk, and bonds the remaining steel ring with magnet array to that. He has a jig and everything. I offered him gobs of money to get us some, but he is out of time. Is this something you have the equipment for? I like the idea of no more cast aluminum. He said the weight came out to the same also!!! Let's talk more about this later.
Whaddaya think? I like it, and have money, let's make it happen!
New flywheels`- need input and help
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Canniboomer
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Yep, that's the plan. Wistech and I had spoke of that donut-style fix a year ago. He was the first to try it out, so kudos to John. The interim bolting fixes have just been MUCH easier, faster, and cheaper to get done -- but still falling short. Welding at the hub, and then moving any fastening outward from center has been a longterm goal to strengthen these hummers.
The shop here has 2 needed machines for reasonable efficiency and cost (a lathe and a digital mill). But I will use an outside CNC to knock out the final faceplates, after exact ID and OD are confirmed. I would agree that adding weight may not be an issue, depending on the OD size, and plate thickness, etc.
As for a one-off version for more testing, I have already given the machinist dimensions (3 months ago, but I'll give him a "nudge"). I think I can get one down to you guys in CA before your next outing.
The shop here has 2 needed machines for reasonable efficiency and cost (a lathe and a digital mill). But I will use an outside CNC to knock out the final faceplates, after exact ID and OD are confirmed. I would agree that adding weight may not be an issue, depending on the OD size, and plate thickness, etc.
As for a one-off version for more testing, I have already given the machinist dimensions (3 months ago, but I'll give him a "nudge"). I think I can get one down to you guys in CA before your next outing.
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thedeatons
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Sweet.... Just to clarify, John didn't seem to give me the impression that it was a donut fix, but more along the lines of him removing ALL the cast aluminum, and replacing that with a steel piece bonded to the magnet array/steel array carrier... Is that what you are referring to? He said there were pictures on the board somewhere, but I can't find them...
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thedeatons
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Here is an excerpt from the spun flywheels topic:
I went a step further and ditched the whole idea of reinforcing the aluminum and just got rid of the whole face and replaced with steel. That way it wieghs the same and no weak link.
That was posted by Wistech. I really think his flywheels have zero aluminum on them, which is what I am after.
I went a step further and ditched the whole idea of reinforcing the aluminum and just got rid of the whole face and replaced with steel. That way it wieghs the same and no weak link.
That was posted by Wistech. I really think his flywheels have zero aluminum on them, which is what I am after.
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thedeatons
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Here is the link for that:
http://www.cannondaleriders.com/forums/ind...ywheel&st=0
He told me on the phone that he bolted the first couple like in the picture on page 1, but has since gone to bonding for more strength.
http://www.cannondaleriders.com/forums/ind...ywheel&st=0
He told me on the phone that he bolted the first couple like in the picture on page 1, but has since gone to bonding for more strength.
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Canniboomer
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I had thought that John only removed some of the aluminum (the face anyway), to replace with an outer layer of steel.
I'm sure he'll post up again soon. In a lathe, the unit would disintegrate after about half way through.
Reclaiming a spun flywheel that cannot hold up in lathe will require much more time and expense -- then maybe a full removal of the inner section is needed, and realignment etc. We can do that also with the machines here, and could batch them to minimize the cost.
Since the magnet array is so magnificent and complex really, and expensive looking, I think that continued efforts to rebuild the stockers is more realistic than creating an entire new flywheel from scratch. Perhaps we will end up with several versions that ALL work. I'd like to talk with Mjollnir first for any CNC work, since he started this particular thread!
I'm sure he'll post up again soon. In a lathe, the unit would disintegrate after about half way through.
Reclaiming a spun flywheel that cannot hold up in lathe will require much more time and expense -- then maybe a full removal of the inner section is needed, and realignment etc. We can do that also with the machines here, and could batch them to minimize the cost.
Since the magnet array is so magnificent and complex really, and expensive looking, I think that continued efforts to rebuild the stockers is more realistic than creating an entire new flywheel from scratch. Perhaps we will end up with several versions that ALL work. I'd like to talk with Mjollnir first for any CNC work, since he started this particular thread!
The flywheels I have done have the entire aluminum face removed all the way to the magnets and tone rings. Just the steel inner hub is welded to a round plate and that plate is then attached to what is left of the tone ring and magnets. I built 4 prototypes and the first one failed at the weld because I only welded it on one side with a mig welder and not the other because I left that side with some of original aluminum surface. The later ones are all steel welded on both sides. With my equiptment its just way to much time to try and make these cost effectively so I just made a few of them. I just dont have any time right now to build any more.
I thought I posted these pics before.
The first ones I was using bolts to attach the face plate to the tone ring but I removed the bolts and just bonded them with high strenth epoxy and they are bonded so good I destroyed a flywheel trying to remove the plate so I think the bolts ar not needed. I didnt get them rebalanced either but they dont seem to be out of balance. The ones I made are the the same wieght as stock but could be drilled and the plates could be cut thinner at the outside to reduce mass for lightening.
As far as bolting the hubs I gave up on that because the high hp motors will destroy them no matter what. They have held up to a certain extent on the stock engines but there have still been enough failures to prove that there is just not enough aluminum there strength wise for anything to work. The flywheels are just crap and I will not discuss the why and hows of why the stock ones spin because it doesnt matter. They were barely ok on the stock engines and totally overtaxed on a hopped up quad.
If anyone can get the plates cut out and the faces machined cost effectively that would save me many hours of work. I will have time in about 2 months to get on this but right now its race season and I am utterly swamped with other projects. Till someone else gets on this or I have time/money I suggest having a spare flywheel /puller in your group or at the track ready to go. I do.
I thought I posted these pics before.
The first ones I was using bolts to attach the face plate to the tone ring but I removed the bolts and just bonded them with high strenth epoxy and they are bonded so good I destroyed a flywheel trying to remove the plate so I think the bolts ar not needed. I didnt get them rebalanced either but they dont seem to be out of balance. The ones I made are the the same wieght as stock but could be drilled and the plates could be cut thinner at the outside to reduce mass for lightening.
As far as bolting the hubs I gave up on that because the high hp motors will destroy them no matter what. They have held up to a certain extent on the stock engines but there have still been enough failures to prove that there is just not enough aluminum there strength wise for anything to work. The flywheels are just crap and I will not discuss the why and hows of why the stock ones spin because it doesnt matter. They were barely ok on the stock engines and totally overtaxed on a hopped up quad.
If anyone can get the plates cut out and the faces machined cost effectively that would save me many hours of work. I will have time in about 2 months to get on this but right now its race season and I am utterly swamped with other projects. Till someone else gets on this or I have time/money I suggest having a spare flywheel /puller in your group or at the track ready to go. I do.
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thedeatons
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twisted_chassis
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