Cams...

Message

m_mcgranahan · #51 Post by **m_mcgranahan** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:23 pm

Hi,

I have to agree with c27 on being a bit leary of running single springs but I guess it could work.

Just curious:
How many of you have been running singles and for how long now?

What your rev limiter set at?

Any issues?

Anyone grenade due to valve float?

God bless...

Mark

cannondale27 · #52 Post by **cannondale27** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:52 am

QUOTE (m_mcgranahan @ Jul 30 2008, 06:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi,

I have to agree with c27 on being a bit leary of running single springs but I guess it could work.

Just curious:
How many of you have been running singles and for how long now?

What your rev limiter set at?

Any issues?

Anyone grenade due to valve float?

God bless...

Mark

Pete,Timbo and I

Pete10500(stock and now ti valves) hours ?
Me 11500(ti valves) 5 tanks of fuel guessing 12 hrs,15 additional hrs on the RD buckets with stock springs and valves in trail motor.
Timbo 10900(stock valves) alot of hours he will have to answer

Float patterns and wear of either cams or buckets has previously been very evident within 1 hr.

No issues

No grenading and no float wear patterns on cams or buckets.

Over the 12 hrs valve clearance tightened by .001 on 2 valves on mine.Checked at least 4 or 5 times.

R&D coated valvebuckets have had no trouble with coatings but they are expensive and there are some that are machined incorrectly for size.That along with cost savings is why we are testing our stock buckets with different coatings.The R&D buckets have survived hardwelded UNCOATED cams such as Crowers with both stock dual valvesprings and single springs.The coating is the key to making hardwelded cams/stock buckets survive since no one has been able to hit the numbers right.You must either coat the cam or the bucket.

The longterm testing continues to see whether the coatings will last long enough.Thinking is lighter spring pressure than stock will promote coating longevity.If coatings on buckets last cheap stock cams including subpar ones should also last.

At basic level the key still remains the sticky bucket and replacing worn valvesprings.

Timbo is the best tester for this since he has been through many many cams,buckets and valves.Only failure or severe wear I have ever had in valvetrain has been as a result of a cracked aluminum spring retainer.

At a minimum I cannot see that going with MORE pressure than stock with shimming accomplishes anything other than overcoming the sticky bucket issue which needs to be addressed

m_mcgranahan · #53 Post by **m_mcgranahan** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 1:25 am

Hi Steve,

Thanks for the info. That is cool to know that its an ongoing project with the three of you. I might be joining the "testing group once I get the timbo stroker motor fixed. (Hogmans old 505, 67mm stroker)

Very cool stuff since I have to rev limit at 10,500 for the stroker anyway.

Thanks

God bless...

Mark

cannondale27 · #54 Post by **cannondale27** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 1:51 am

Whole goal is to open up options we dont have right now such as hardwelded cams and stock junk cams along with more power and reliability.It would really be nice to see some more people testing anything and checking stuff BEFORE it blows doesnt really cost anything other than time.

Happyboy · #55 Post by **Happyboy** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:08 am

You know, I would love to see what the spring rate curve looks like on the spring you guys are testing. Did you guys measure the springs at all for pressure before using them?

peterock · #56 Post by **peterock** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 4:07 am

Feel free to test some Happyboy. We aren't out here preaching that everyone needs to do this. This all started because I simply informed everyone what I changed on my motor from one dyno run to the next. That's it.

And yes, Crower measured the spring rates of the single outer springs and told me to run them and I shouldn't have any problems as there was more then enough spring pressure. So when I send my stuff to an experienced engine builder and he gives me his input, I'm going to take it and use it..........otherwise what would be the point?????

If you don't like the idea, then don't do it. Simple enough. If you think more testing should be done..........then by all means go ahead and spend your money on it and see what you come up with.

end of story......now lets get back to something better..............

cannondale27 · #57 Post by **cannondale27** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:13 am

I also measured the springs I am running like I always do.They came from Canniboomer and he said they were also tested by whoever he got them from.They are just plain stock springs.New ones though.Not fatigued old springs.I will replace them every 20-30 hrs or yearly whichever comes first just like everyone else is supposed to be doing.At 3 tanks of gas the spec hasnt changed.So so far so good.

Happyboy · #58 Post by **Happyboy** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:33 pm

Pete, believing a builder just because they had a good rep is what got tons of people in trouble in the first place. I am not going to go changing spring setups because i am happy with the spring setup we have and its not worth the risk to me. But, just like I did with the Kibble-n-bits I would love to do some measuring and work on a spring to see how it compares. I may give them a call and see what they go do for me to take a look at them.

Wow Steve, you are a heck of alot better than I am. I don't want to get into my engines that much unless I have to or am doing some testing. What about 3 tanks of gas?

cannondale27 · #59 Post by **cannondale27** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 7:08 pm

I dont use hrs.Just tanks of gas.I know I should get a hour meter but its really easy to know how much gas you used also and fairly accurate for time.There are alot of people doing rebuilds every year.Some twice a year.Its a $ saving venture.Inspect/refresh-vs-failure.It doesnt matter what make either.They all are doing it.Generally if your a A or pro rider twice a year if B,C once.Put it this way 30 hrs is around 12 tanks of gas.Thats alot of gas to burn on a race track.30hrs is conservative.Trailriding/duning its still almost 4 or 5 whole weekend of average use.Not many do that.Its a choice.Take chances or take it apart.I cant afford to take chances.

m_mcgranahan · #60 Post by **m_mcgranahan** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:37 pm

Hi,

Yeah, that is pretty often especially considering it takes me at least 6-7 hours to take the motor out and put it back in again! What all do you do on each of those service pulls?

Thanks

God bless...

Mark