Top end sugestion, valve springs and rpms

Message

m_mcgranahan · #41 Post by **m_mcgranahan** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 4:27 pm

HI Peter,

Thats cool! DId you have the valves coated on the stem cut down friction and wear in the guides? Did you use the stock seats? IF so did you have them recut, cuase it looks to me like they are bigger diameter valves than the stockers?

Thanks

God bless...

Mark

Ps. Just drove through WI on my family vacation and was thinking, hmm I think Peterock is really near here. Almost thought about stopping in the store to say hi for the fun of it, but the 14month old disliked the car trip enough already ;-)

m_mcgranahan · #42 Post by **m_mcgranahan** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 4:35 pm

Hi,

One more thing, can you tell me more about the power commander? I see some thing on Denniskirk for $360-500. What is need for the Dale? Is it a kit we have to modify, or is there an actual Dale version? How does it work with our ecu?

Thanks

GOd bless...

Mark

peterock · #43 Post by **peterock** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 4:46 pm

As for the questions, Crower had my head in hand and took care of it. So I'm not 100% but I believe it was the stock seats. They are not oversized as Steve's are. Stock size but they don't have the dish so they do raise compression slightly.

This weekend would have been bad timing. I was up north visiting the wife's grandparents. Don't have a store front anyway. Everything is done out of the basement and garage right now. I wish there was a big enough demand to justify a store front but the ATK/Cannondale demand just isn't good enough to support that.

m_mcgranahan · #44 Post by **m_mcgranahan** » Sun Nov 28, 2010 10:20 pm

HI,

I now have cam wear on three motors and am kind of tired of it. Makes me wonder did anyone ever make progress on bee hive valve springs? I know there re other reasons for the issues also, but I do think if we could lower spring pressures we might extend cam life

Thanks

God bless...
Mark

cannondale27 · #45 Post by **cannondale27** » Mon Nov 29, 2010 1:05 am

Yes we made lots of progress. Problem is hardness of both buckets and cams. They don't hit the #'s all the time and only real way to know is to run them. Best solution so far is use of the Axceldyne buckets they are coated with DLC. Coatings make up for the issues and I would never run a motor without Axceldynes unless it had over 3 years on both the cams and buckets and they survived. That is the reason why I feel UPSMANS head is worth so much. It is proven and has not had a issue. Coating cams has proven to not work since the process makes the needlebearing surface soft and it then fails. I have 4 sets in my four motors. Add it up. Lot of $ but its worth it. Get the Axceldynes. Do yearly spring and even valve changes and there will be no issues.

wayneschofield · #46 Post by **wayneschofield** » Mon Nov 29, 2010 7:35 pm

Has anyone tried using hayabusa buckets? they will be consistently good quality I'm sure.

Interestingly, the '08> motors have more aggressive cams yet have gone to single springs, allowed by Titanium valves. The buckets are very light too.

cannondale27 · #47 Post by **cannondale27** » Mon Nov 29, 2010 9:05 pm

Yes Hyabusa buckets are probably better but it still doesnt work if the cams are not right hardness.I also know that many Hyabusa owners install the Axceldynes.Gotta ask why?Wayne you turned us on to DLC buckets and made a believer out of me.If folks are willing to take a chance on other cheaper alternatives so be it.I dont like walking and I hate missing rides all together because if something goes wrong that is what happens.Up to you.Like old saying."Pay me now or pay me later"

Wait till we get a 1/2in of lift for the all out motors.Then we will be pushing it for sure.Not now.Our springs are exactly the same as a 450R so I really dont want to hear about spring pressure or wieght.Valve float is cured by regular spring maintainence and fixing the sticky bucket.Do that run axceldynes and lets move on.

m_mcgranahan · #48 Post by **m_mcgranahan** » Tue Nov 30, 2010 2:59 pm

HI,

So are the coated buckets actually helping to cure cam wear or just bucket wear? Steve, even if the 450R runs the same spring pressure, wouldn't it still be better to have beehives made for cdales and lower our pressure since we know we issues with cam hardness etc? I heard we could drop spring pressures by about 12% by using a beehive spring... Just seems like it might help.

God bless...
Mark

m_mcgranahan · #49 Post by **m_mcgranahan** » Tue Nov 30, 2010 3:22 pm

Hey Wayne,
What ever happened to the conical springs you had for testing back in 2008? (Just saw an old post)

Thanks

God bless...
Mark

cannondale27 · #50 Post by **cannondale27** » Tue Nov 30, 2010 3:23 pm

Yes of course it would probably help to lower spring pressures but there is plenty of other motors running much higher spring pressures than we are and we have a simple solution already.Axceldyne buckets.Yes they stop wear on the buckets AND the cams.

See say both the cams and the buckets are hardened big time.It still doesnt matter since if both components have the same hardness they both will fail.Also if one or the other is TOO hard compared to the other they both will fail.As you can see it is a fine line and we have varying hardness on both the buckets and the cams.That brings up all kinds of combos that will fail.Even the big manufacturers have these issues with hardness in cams,buckets and cranks.I am sure millions of dollars are spent to get consistency but it still happens to all.Coatings are consistant everytime and much easier to control than hardening.Look around they are being used everywhere and provide that needed consistancy.