E85 Gas

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cannondale27 · #1 Post by **cannondale27** » Tue May 06, 2008 12:51 am

Anyone running this stuff? Obviously you would have to map richer but should be able to safely go 13:1 or maybe more on piston. Should also be able to bump up timing. At only $2.25 a gallon might be a good option. I know our injectors both Harley and stock are compatible with it. Question is what about rest of system? Would we have to treat it like running pure alcohol?

Canniboomer · #2 Post by **Canniboomer** » Tue May 06, 2008 2:25 am

I've noticed more fueling complaints from the California guys that have used ethanol-content fuels (or have been forced to). The alcohol and ethanol fuels will absorb moisture from the air, and you are not supposed to even store it for more than 6 weeks. Some storage additives now are tailored to it, like E-sorb and others -- intended to get the moisture into a burnable state -- I don't know -- it's like dosing a bit of steam power through the chamber, and I'm reluctant to use it on any occasional-use machines.

2mike18 · #3 Post by **2mike18** » Tue May 06, 2008 2:32 am

I think in autos they use a different fuel line (stainless) if I remember right. it burns around 70% as good as regular gasoline (so less distance between fill ups) it does have a higher octane rating around 106 or so I belive. and it does not store well ( more hydroscopic ) not good if sits a lot.
sometimes as hard to find as race gas. I would imagine if a person ran this a map select would be very handy if you had to mix fuels or couldn't find e85 on the trail. the people I know that run it use it in drag cars and stock cars so they bring extra fuel with them. it reminds me of vp race fuel burn it all or drain it when not in use. (swollen o-rings with vp anyone else??) my numbers might not be on the spot but should be close. if you run it on the dyno fill me in please. courious to see how much richer it would need to be in a dale. I would even drive down and hopefully help or if finances are good chip in some $$.

wanablaze · #4 Post by **wanablaze** » Tue May 06, 2008 3:21 am

I know on the GTO boards, guys are tuning more aggressively for E85. I think the biggest issue is the rubber. We'd probably have to change fuel lines and o-rings.

kdeal · #5 Post by **kdeal** » Tue May 06, 2008 1:03 pm

Wanablaze hit the nail on the head. It will eat thru regular rubber. I would change any o-rings or lines in the fuel system to alcohol tolerant stuff. Second, alcohol burns twice as fast as gasoline so be aware of less miles per gallon. It is extremely tolerant of compression and higher timing. It runs much cooler as well. It does not store well as it does absorb moisture from the air. The AFR ratio is like 7:1, so be aware you will be flowing twice as much fuel per hour on those injectors.

Now all of my quotes above are for pure alcohol, E85 is a combination of gas and alcohol I believe, so adjust the numbers accordingly......

m_mcgranahan · #6 Post by **m_mcgranahan** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 5:52 am

Hi,

FWIW, I ran some in a turbo charged Volvo one time and it made much much better power than the 87 octane I usually ran. (It has a knock sensor that retards the timming so you can run 87 octane or what ever you want) So, if you ran a 13 to 1 or 14 to 1 piston, you could make great power and use a cheaper fuel. It did slightly damage my fuel pump in the car, as the pump would no longer hold pressure when turned off, so I had a tougher time starting it after the 1/4 tank experiment.

So, Likely upgrades needed to run E85...

Fuel pump
Fuel Pressure regulator
o-rings
rubber lines
fuel filter?

I could be wrong on these things, but I suspect this is what would be needed.

God bless...

Mark

m_mcgranahan · #7 Post by **m_mcgranahan** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 1:06 pm

Hi,

I found the page that made me give up on converting my Volvo Turbo to e85 due to all the costs and issues. This is a college paper done on converting a GM truck to e85. If you lok at page 4 you will see there are many many issues to be overcome to make this work long term.

www.engr.unl.edu/~ethanol/unl-sae2.pdf

I am still curious if you do the run it and drain it thing, if one could pull this off w/o to much dammage. Anyone doing that long term yet?

Thanks

God bless...

Mark

wayneschofield · #8 Post by **wayneschofield** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 10:44 pm

Got to be carefull mapping with it because detonation sets in much more quickly because a greater proportion of the fuel is the same compound.

Petrol is made up of many different compounds of varying volatility which makes the progression into the det zone occur over a greater range of advance/compression.

claas900 · #9 Post by **claas900** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 11:11 pm

Would the PC work with trying to get this tuned in?

cannondale27 · #10 Post by **cannondale27** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 11:17 pm

Yes.Was done on a LTR week before I was there.Ran well but he ended up blowing a head gasket.Dyno guy had theory that since more fuel is in that cylinder actual compression is actually raised.Kind of makes sense.Not sure if blown gasket was caused by it though.