Oil Pump/Checkball Seat Fix

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thedeatons · #1 Post by **thedeatons** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 11:22 pm

Can someone please post a writeup on what exactly to do to fix this? Any pictures would help!

SlOoT · #2 Post by **SlOoT** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 7:31 pm

I have done this once. But I have also found out that fixing that problem will not keep the oil from getting into the engine when it's not running.

In the filterhousing, there is an hole leading from the inside of the filter area (where the oil has already gone through the filter) directly to the balanceshaft. So the oil can bypas the checkball through that.

The oil will very slowly go through there into the engine.

I can make a picture of the hole maybe tomorrow.

thedeatons · #3 Post by **thedeatons** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 7:59 pm

What the heck.... So is the fix useless? This is one of the reasons why myself and a few others have been running less oil, to avoid hydrolocking at startup. If there is a checkball bypass, then won't we continue to have the same problem even if the checkball seat is fixed?

SlOoT · #4 Post by **SlOoT** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 8:07 pm

I did notice that the oil comes through very slowly. When you remove the oilfilter cover and leave it like that for a few days you could see how much excactly comes through there.

cannondale27 · #5 Post by **cannondale27** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 10:14 pm

Deatons the fix is to progressively try more radical steps. Starting with just riding or starting it more, oil change, low pressure air blowing, Polishing seat, replacing pump.

thedeatons · #6 Post by **thedeatons** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 10:49 pm

Okay.... So with my E440 engine sitting in front of me, ready for a rebuild, I would love to know which epoxied hole to drill out, and how to remove the stopper, which epoxy to use to reinstall the stopper, where to get a new checkball if mine is messed up, etc....

rayspeed · #7 Post by **rayspeed** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 5:11 am

I dont have answers but I concur with 27... if it could leak anywhere other than the check ball the pump would be sucking more air than oil and that would be even worse!
I was thinking that it would be pretty obvious which plug to drill out but maybe not and an exact size would be good info!
So I will be watching for answers too!
Ray

cannondale27 · #8 Post by **cannondale27** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 12:28 pm

Hold on here. I was wrong, Sloot is correct. From what I can see oil could in fact bypass the checkball and seep into the motor. So that adds another issue. Solid red line is route oil takes to get to the checkball. Maybe add a o-ring?
[attachment=6655:Oil_route_pump.jpg]
Here are some pics. Old style pumps didnt have any epoxy just a circlip. New ones I have taken apart but never assembled. Wistech knows the specifics on new plug and checkball. Maybe he will redo one for you.
[attachment=6651:Pump_001.jpg]
[attachment=6652:oil_pump_drawing.jpg]
[attachment=6657:Pump_004.jpg]

polyesterpig · #9 Post by **polyesterpig** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 7:04 pm

Cannondale realized that oil was weeping by the circlips, so they went with the epoxy to seal them.

Canniboomer · #10 Post by **Canniboomer** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 7:40 pm

Yo Steve, in your last photo there, I have always had a problem with seeing that as a bypass routing. Isn't that slanted hole the feed directly into the balance shaft one-way bearing? via the ID, and to the plate bearing via the OD of the shaft?

I can see from your great diagrams that as the filter is more restricted or rpm increases, excess oil is routed back around into the feed route to be pumped again, and thereby relieving the pump-against-filter pressure, and maintaining a maximum push pressure depending on the strength of the secondary spring and rpm.

But I keep seeing that 100% of the oil is filtered before reaching any motor components, with all of the oil passing thru the filter.

For oil seepage into the motor, we have 2 separate issues and they are apparently variable. Some oil can seep into the sump directly per your points made above, and if those clearances are tight, oil may instead push up higher via the leaky primary checkball and through the filter.... I guess both are happening to some degree.