Dual ss exhaust system

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UpsMan · #21 Post by **UpsMan** » Sat Jan 10, 2009 4:09 pm

Well, you do that. I'll keep spending money on pretty things. I like pretty things.

peterock · #22 Post by **peterock** » Sat Jan 10, 2009 4:23 pm

Too bad John is too high on his horse to realize I pointed out before him there could be a clearance issue. As for his WeaponMX comment. I'm sure John has a lot more knowledge then an exhaust builder. All that experience John has with building exhausts.

Next thing John will be putting a piece of solid steel in for an axle and say it's the best thing and is better then the RPM axle.

wistech · #23 Post by **wistech** » Sat Jan 10, 2009 5:04 pm

Havent had issues with shock fade . I think with stainless tubes and remote rezzy it will be fine. Be sure to use heat sleeving on the oil hoses by the right headpipe.

cannondale27 · #24 Post by **cannondale27** » Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:59 pm

If you look at the mounting bracket the Weapon MX can has I believe something similar could easily hold up to a angled can.Very durable design.Someday we will have both durable and performing.

MX Quad Dad · #25 Post by **MX Quad Dad** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 3:38 pm

QUOTE (peterock @ Jan 10 2009, 11:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Too bad John is too high on his horse to realize I pointed out before him there could be a clearance issue. As for his WeaponMX comment. I'm sure John has a lot more knowledge then an exhaust builder. All that experience John has with building exhausts.

Next thing John will be putting a piece of solid steel in for an axle and say it's the best thing and is better then the RPM axle.

I don't know what the attack on Weapon MX is about. But it seems to me from what I read on here that Wistech (and 27) seem to dyno every thing and put charts up for all to see. It's been a long time since I was trying to get more power and a better power curve from a quad. I was shoppping for 2 stroke gains back then. I was amazed that all those big name pipe builders couldn't supply me with a dyno sheet to suport thier claims. All I wanted was a comparison between stock and their pipe and of coarse I knew there would be jetting involved. Some companies even admitted they never dynoed their pipe. I haven't dealt with Weapon MX yet. I will probably be looking for a quiter exhaust with the least HP loss in the near future. I will be asking the same questions with only a garranty on the noise level. I know HP gains aren't the same on identical engines let alone ones with different mods. My point is that if Wistech can dyno a home built system and publish his dyno charts (maybe Weapon MX did also) why can't the companies that make a living building pipes do the same? And for flow testing, I don't give a crap how well the exhaust flows. Put it on a dyno and show me the gains.

Back when I was shooping for a set of pipes for the Banshee I couln't believe the claims with no proof. When I called Toomy they sent me a set of dyno charts that was done by a magazine which included most of the companies I had called. Each chart compared between stock run and aftermarket run with recommended jetting. Toomy was actually not recommending thier T-5s. I believe they were saying that they were designed for top end (I was looking for low to mid gains) and didn't recommend them with a single carb. When I looked at the charts. They weren't the best at the lower revs but weren't that bad. I got a pretty good deal on a set and tried them. I'm still impressed with the rideabily of that set-up. I did call Toomy back after I got it dialed in and asked why they didn't recommend the T-5s. Their answer shocked me. It was something like, we never tested anything like that and couldn't give me any help on tunning it. If I ever make it out to one of the dyno days I am going to try and bring the Banshee, just so I can see how it looks on paper.

cannondale27 · #26 Post by **cannondale27** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 3:53 pm

I am going to have to stand with Wistec on this one. He goes on computer on a Big Screen TV so he sees more than most. In the original Weapon MX thread he said the pipe looked like crap. I didn't see that till I saw it in person. It's the worst job of making a headpipe I have ever seen. Beautiful silencer and has proven durable but the headpipe is something they should really be ashamed of. I know I was disappointed. Maybe it will make power but going by all we know it probably stands a 1 in 50 chance of beating a stock toaster. There is no reason we need to be thankful to any company who doesn't do things right for us.

As for shock fade. I don't buy it unless the pipe is actually touching the shock. Shock fade is from junk oil. Any airflow will for sure leave the main source of shock heat be the shock itself. Not the exhaust.

kdeal · #27 Post by **kdeal** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 5:17 pm

I think Wistech's point has to do with the flex in the system when the suspension compresses. When the exhaust is in line it would be flexing with the same angle as the pipe connections (but then again, the HMF pipe's joint is at an angle as well...)

On the Weapon MX thing... I think they screwed themselves by even taking on the job of an exhaust for these bikes. My guess was that someone at ATK specified to use the '03 headpipe and the resulting adaptation while it fits is definitely performance killing of their "system". I absolutely love their work that I have seen up close (Dealer Show) and I for one have no problem using their products, just not the headpipe adapted for the ATK/Cannondale. Most of what they had on display was slip-ons with a few exceptions.

MXQuaddad: Stuart Toomey is one of the best minds in the design and building of two-stroke exhausts (especially Yamaha 2 stroke twins). This guy continues to build the highest HP exhausts for the application bar anyone. No one outperforms his work. Unfortunately he has a narrow mind thought as to what should be the way to go. He simply does not believe in the single carb set-up for the Banshee. He preferred the stock carbs modified to his specs. I tested a ton of different pipes over the years for Banshees and my personal preference was Paul Turner/Duncan Racing for everything but top end racing sports. I could smoke pretty much anybody off of the line with any set-up with my fat butt on the bike. But, once 4th to 5th gear came around the faster bikes were catching me and passing me because of my set-up. I set a bike up once to do 120mph and Toomey's were the only pipe I would have picked.

wistech · #28 Post by **wistech** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:30 pm

On the flexing it was distance from the subframe to the muffler you need to make strong enough to handle a hard landing. The stockers were bending enough with the stock clamp to bend the muffler into the caliper at 2 inches . Now make it much longer and calculate the stress involved. A simple bolt would most likely break right away. Im guessing a decent heavy bracket would be needed. Then of course the angle of the muffler would be easier to make a burly bracket for . On my first left side duals I ran a piece of angle steel to the outboard muffler and it worked fine .

Kuma · #29 Post by **Kuma** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 8:21 pm

QUOTE (kwik man @ Dec 30 2008, 02:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[attachment=7819:701_001.jpg][attachment=7820:701_007.jpg][attachment=7821:701_0
02.jpg]
I have made my own stainless steel dual exhaust header starting from
the head. It starts with 1 3/8 ss tube it makes a 45 dreg bend then a 1 ????
Ss Tube slips over it. Then a 1 5/8 ss tube 45 degree bends slides over
The 1 ???? ss tube there it a 1 ???? that slides on and 2 inch it clears the shock
Gas tank when I get the can's I will send it to timbo to see what kind of hp
It will make.

Did you use a 1 7/8" between the 1 3/4" and 2" tubing?

Canniboomer · #30 Post by **Canniboomer** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:32 pm

I have no idea how Wistec managed to translate my comment about a "slight outboard angle" to mean a 5 or 6-inch spacer?... who would even consider that? Have you looked at the Moto Ti Exhaust? -- that one is not parallel to the subframe,....it has the slight outboard angle, and without even tweaking the strap....and if a Grade-8 stand-off bolt had been used instead of the flexible cDale bolt,....well, there is more than enough spacing to the caliper. The BigGun also mounts at an angle. Two inches of spacer is plenty with an offset FMF strap,...and even for a harder angle than the Moto Ti. And custom brackets for off-angle are not needed anyway. You can hang a tab from a bolt at an off-angle with dual wedge washers.

If using some degree of angle can help Kwikman to salvage his job without a complete rework, then that was all I was suggesting to consider. I suppose I would like parallel tailpipes as much as the next guy, but I would not get so hung up about that feature. It's simply not mandatory, and I stand by my earlier post.

As for Weapon MX, he was here to get advice, and proceed from there. Also, Weapon MX cannot really be blamed for much of anything -- they were never even supplied a frame to work with. That was all mail-order engineering, and then resold as a full new system. It should have been clear from the beginning that it was a Silencer, plus a modified Cannondale header -- and there is nothing wrong with doing that, why not?.... there will be plenty of demand for that, after some improvements. WeaponMX only first saw the frames at the last INDY show,..... when some of you guys also saw the exhausts mounted for the first time.

As for the dirtbike exhaust, that was also covered during Bill's visit. I won't elaborate here.