Build a Low Power 'Dale
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MX Quad Dad
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wayneschofield
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QUOTE (NRath @ Feb 15 2010, 05:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The progression, I know all about it... Hard for me to believe this was taken 8-1/2 years ago!
So the kids have done alot of growing. My daughter had just started riding the 100 when the pic was taken, as did the little guy on the 50. He's been on a 90 for a couple years. She's 13 and 5'9", so I really can't see the sense in buying her an intermediate. If money were no object, maybe, but only because of the power deal. She's big enough and capable of handling the full size. She'll be nervous in the woods, though, for sure! hte biggest challenge will be learning to shift gears.
Funny, I watched all 4 races this weekend and didn't conclude corking the intake to probably be the best way! DUHHH! Looks like I probably will go with a "restrictor plate" in the airbox and injection tweaking.
So the kids have done alot of growing. My daughter had just started riding the 100 when the pic was taken, as did the little guy on the 50. He's been on a 90 for a couple years. She's 13 and 5'9", so I really can't see the sense in buying her an intermediate. If money were no object, maybe, but only because of the power deal. She's big enough and capable of handling the full size. She'll be nervous in the woods, though, for sure! hte biggest challenge will be learning to shift gears.
Funny, I watched all 4 races this weekend and didn't conclude corking the intake to probably be the best way! DUHHH! Looks like I probably will go with a "restrictor plate" in the airbox and injection tweaking.
Oh I get you now....
You don't want your 13 year old girl kicking your butt if she has full power.... the truth emerges....
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MX Quad Dad
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QUOTE (Wayne Schofield @ Feb 15 2010, 09:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Oh I get you now....
You don't want your 13 year old girl kicking your butt if she has full power.... the truth emerges....
You don't want your 13 year old girl kicking your butt if she has full power.... the truth emerges....
I didn,t even think of that
I would have to admitt that after a few months I had to learn to eat dust. so if you don't like the taste of dust (or mud) keep her on the 100. lol
A restrictor plate on the intake won't do much for limiting the throttle responce. It will work well for limiting power on the top end but that can be done with the rev limiter. I think the cam timing along with the low rev limit would work but if you set the cams to make top end and then limit the revs it will have a super soft low end and will be easy to stall. I rode a 90 around a little lot a while back and it was kinda fun ( I had a couple drinks in me) I don't think there is any way you can make a dale work as easy at a low power level at a smaller motor.
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MX Quad Dad
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after thinking about it, I would say, the rider is the restrictor plate that you have to deal with.
If I would have had a need to limit the throttle on the banshee, we would have bought something else.
I think that is what you are tring to do is turn the dale into that something else. In my opinion the dale ain't that much differant from the Shee with the banshee being on the worse side for a novice rider.
I guess you have to make the dissision. I knew the banshee was going to need a lot of body movement to keep it on the tires. these quads are a lot like the that. I don't think i would put the effort into making a dale handle like a EX which still requires some body english. I guess what I'm saying You watch her ride so, Do you think she is a "rider" or a "driver". for somebody who is happy and content with being a driver, don't try to turn them into a rider or put them on a quad that needs a rider.
I believe that after a childs first quad there should be no need for a rev limiter. they should not ride unsupervised anyway and superviser should know if they are riding over thier ability.
in reality, people get hurt in this sport. by the time you think about putting a child on a performance quad the safety part should not be a issue. You shouldn't need to tell them to put a helment, chest protector, teather goggles,etc....on. and I believe they should be the rev limiter after all a quad falling flat on its face at the wrong time could be hasardus also . If i saw my son riding way past his ability or a speed i thought was to high for his abilty or safe for the people around him. the consiquinces would have been the same as riding without a helment.
I would also think long term cost would be cheaper to by a differant quad if the child is happy being the driver type.
If I would have had a need to limit the throttle on the banshee, we would have bought something else.
I think that is what you are tring to do is turn the dale into that something else. In my opinion the dale ain't that much differant from the Shee with the banshee being on the worse side for a novice rider.
I guess you have to make the dissision. I knew the banshee was going to need a lot of body movement to keep it on the tires. these quads are a lot like the that. I don't think i would put the effort into making a dale handle like a EX which still requires some body english. I guess what I'm saying You watch her ride so, Do you think she is a "rider" or a "driver". for somebody who is happy and content with being a driver, don't try to turn them into a rider or put them on a quad that needs a rider.
I believe that after a childs first quad there should be no need for a rev limiter. they should not ride unsupervised anyway and superviser should know if they are riding over thier ability.
in reality, people get hurt in this sport. by the time you think about putting a child on a performance quad the safety part should not be a issue. You shouldn't need to tell them to put a helment, chest protector, teather goggles,etc....on. and I believe they should be the rev limiter after all a quad falling flat on its face at the wrong time could be hasardus also . If i saw my son riding way past his ability or a speed i thought was to high for his abilty or safe for the people around him. the consiquinces would have been the same as riding without a helment.
I would also think long term cost would be cheaper to by a differant quad if the child is happy being the driver type.
Yeah, you've got some good points, definitely. Rider or driver... At this point, she's a driver.
I think she's plenty capable of handling the 'dale, I just know she'd be more comfortable if it weren't so jumpy/powerful. She doesn't ride alot and I can't see dumping money or selling this 'dale to get her a 250/300EX to sit. At least if I get her on the 'dale, I have spare parts when I need them. And, a machine that I know inside and out. And, parts are cheap. I'm going to put it together as we've discussed with small changes and see how it works out. If it stalls too much or she's just not having fun, I'll have to go another route. I"ve already traded one 'Dale for a KFX400. I don't think I could bring myself to trade one for a 250EX. That just seems wrong! But maybe that's where I'll end up.
If anyone's got any other ideas that haven't come up, throw them out here.
I think she's plenty capable of handling the 'dale, I just know she'd be more comfortable if it weren't so jumpy/powerful. She doesn't ride alot and I can't see dumping money or selling this 'dale to get her a 250/300EX to sit. At least if I get her on the 'dale, I have spare parts when I need them. And, a machine that I know inside and out. And, parts are cheap. I'm going to put it together as we've discussed with small changes and see how it works out. If it stalls too much or she's just not having fun, I'll have to go another route. I"ve already traded one 'Dale for a KFX400. I don't think I could bring myself to trade one for a 250EX. That just seems wrong! But maybe that's where I'll end up.
If anyone's got any other ideas that haven't come up, throw them out here.
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MX Quad Dad
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I hate to say it. but, I think building a top end engine and rev limiting it down is not the way to go. I built our banshee to give me all the lowend I could get on pump gas. I swear you can take off at idle with very little clutch slipping. I think if i were to do this I would stroke it and up the comp but still be able to run pump gas. and would be nice if you could get a heavyer flywheel. then tune it down from there.
Top end engines take more clutch talent to take off with than a bottomend engine
haveing a driver rather than a rider ain't that bad as long as they don't try to copy a rider. I let my gard down and a friend of my children who was definately a driver, she tryed to do a double on my MX track on a sportsman. I built the track for my son to practice on and I didn't have the nerve to take that jump on my speed.
Top end engines take more clutch talent to take off with than a bottomend engine
haveing a driver rather than a rider ain't that bad as long as they don't try to copy a rider. I let my gard down and a friend of my children who was definately a driver, she tryed to do a double on my MX track on a sportsman. I built the track for my son to practice on and I didn't have the nerve to take that jump on my speed.
Why couldn't you just put in a map and adjust the TS to take the jumpiness out, like on the bikes that have the E mapping vs X mapping? The E mapping is a lot softer on the bottom in. I agree with MX Quad Dad. My son was scared to ride the dale at first. But like I told him, it will only go as fast as you want it to. He uses the X mapping in the woods now. A little slip of the clutch in the tight stuff works really good.
Maybe a combination of the restrictor plate and mapping would do the trick. Would be easier to go back when you want to.
Maybe a combination of the restrictor plate and mapping would do the trick. Would be easier to go back when you want to.
QUOTE (captmoto @ Feb 24 2010, 08:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Why couldn't you just put in a map and adjust the TS to take the jumpiness out, like on the bikes that have the E mapping vs X mapping? The E mapping is a lot softer on the bottom in. I agree with MX Quad Dad. My son was scared to ride the dale at first. But like I told him, it will only go as fast as you want it to. He uses the X mapping in the woods now. A little slip of the clutch in the tight stuff works really good.
Maybe a combination of the restrictor plate and mapping would do the trick. Would be easier to go back when you want to.
Maybe a combination of the restrictor plate and mapping would do the trick. Would be easier to go back when you want to.
That's the direction I'm headed. I mentioned the TS earlier, but mistakenly called it TR, I think. I'll start with map tweaking, then go to teh restrictor plate if needed. Like you guys have said, she only has to go as fast as she wants to.
Starting with an E map is a good suggestion, thanks!
I may be peeing in the wind- she still might not even be willing to get on the thing! I've gotta' try.