Titanium wrist pin for WWE piston

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haulinit · #1 Post by **haulinit** » Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:46 pm

I'm in process of having a Ti DLC coated pin made for the WWE piston that I acquired for my new motor. Is there anybody out there that would be interested in one. I'm planning on going forward with this fairly quickly. Right now price is $150 per pin. Some people may ask why spend the coin? According to the manufacter the new combined weight of the pin and 98mm piston will only be 9 grams heavier then a stock piston and stock pin.

Ps. forgot to mention that the WWE piston uses a totally different pin then other piston brands.

Thanks
Shawn

cannondale27 · #2 Post by **cannondale27** » Wed Nov 07, 2012 2:10 am

Shame to put such a nice pin in a Junk WWE piston.

haulinit · #3 Post by **haulinit** » Wed Nov 07, 2012 2:51 am

I was under the impression that it was not necessarily the piston's fault but the pins weren't heavy enough to handle the additional weight, but I understand that it may not have been the "best" design.

wistech · #4 Post by **wistech** » Wed Nov 07, 2012 10:15 am

WWE are a poor piston design compounded by the original paper thin pin. Years ago Tim aquired some double thickness standard wiseco wrist pins which I ran for several years at 55hp but eventually that one even broke. Which is why I ordered the thicker ones in tool steel which they "swear " not to ever break. I never got around to running the new pins so I dont know how it would hold up. My question is this . What would be the Ti equivalent to a .200" wall tool steel pin? I know Ti is as strong as regular steel but what about tool steel? Is it worth it just to hopefully band aid a bad design that if it doesnt work you will most likely loose the majority of the engine in event of failure. It seems for a few bucks more you could run a CP or for a lot less use the tool steel ones. We have lost so many engines to these pistons Id hate to see another one go .

haulinit · #5 Post by **haulinit** » Wed Nov 07, 2012 1:43 pm

John, I can ask the manufacter the weight and strength question. The print they sent me is showing a wall thickness of 5.08 mm or .4" for the Ti pin. I know you told me the other night on the phone that for a few more bucks you would just run a CP, who has new CP kits and what are the prices? I dont really want to run the Tool steel pin to try and get the spinning weight down. I feel kinda backed into the corner on this piston deal as I have invested in a 98MM piston with a matched steel sleeve that turned out to be something other then what I was original told. I'm not going to name names so please dont ask, as I dont think they did this on purpose.

" We have lost so many engines to these pistons Id hate to see another one go .", I'm not trying to be short or coy I'm asking because I dont know. Did the piston its self break or was it the piston design breaking the wrist pin's? So if I put a very sturdy wrist pin in it...will it hold?

As with anybody else I dont want a gernade for a motor as I want this to stay together for a good long while. In the end this comes down to the almighty dollar, cost vs benefit. Please dont think I'm ignoring the advise just trying to absorb and make a educated guess.

Thanks everybody
Shawn

wistech · #6 Post by **wistech** » Wed Nov 07, 2012 4:46 pm

I think I did a post a few years ago on the problems with those pistons. I dont know why but he designed a big gap between the rod and the piston so it intoduces flex forces in the piston . As well as being a cup design there is no ridged structure from on side to the other so the pin is taking even more load . On the cp piston the structure starts from the pin bosses and radiates to the outside of the piston.
Let me see if I have a extra 98mm kit . I might have a use for it in a bike engine or something .
Ill check with Tim and see if he has any extras.

haulinit · #7 Post by **haulinit** » Wed Nov 07, 2012 5:35 pm

Ok thank you. I have a call into Tim also, waiting to hear back.

kdeal · #8 Post by **kdeal** » Thu Nov 08, 2012 2:19 pm

Using any piston in the Cannondale motor except for tried and trued designs is not smart. As John has stated the piston pin is not the only problem with the WWE piston kit. The wrist pin bosses is another one, but my personal favorite is the fact that someone takes the time to special order and design a piston from scratch, then after recieveing it, takes a grinder to the piston to make it better and lighter. A piston should not be touched after manufacture except for balancing purposes. The piston is usually forged and heat treated, why take a grinder to that. Take a look at the bottom of the piston where the pin bosses are, look at the shape from the side. Most pistons have a square block, WWE grinds this to an arc shape below the pin. This just does nothing but weaken the pin area and then add a super duper lightened taper bored piston pin and you are guaranteed to have a surprise ending (think of a delay fuse in a hand gernade!!!). Stick with the latest CP designed pistons or a stocker. It would be interesting to get a Ti pin for one of those! Lighter is faster, but it will always be weaker than a steel piston pin, as Ti is only as strong as about grade 5 to grade 8 regular steel. Ti would make a good race choice but not a good long term motor.

wistech · #9 Post by **wistech** » Thu Nov 08, 2012 2:36 pm

I do have an extra cp 98mm . Give me a call.

haulinit · #10 Post by **haulinit** » Thu Nov 08, 2012 3:22 pm

QUOTE (Wistech @ Nov 8 2012, 08:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I do have an extra cp 98mm . Give me a call.

Ok will do.