Hi guys,
So I was chatting with my friend the other day about the fact that dales store there engine oil in the frame. He came up with a good point, why?
Well I mean the oil is held in the upper part of the frame so that means that the weight of the oil is held higher raising the centre of gravity.
Wouldn't it be better to convert it to a small external oil tank placed lower in the frame?
Would that work using the standard internal engine oil pump?
Just a thought. Any ideas on this?
Oil tank conversion
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speedracer
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cannondale27
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Canniboomer
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The rear oil inlet is gravity fed, with no significant suction pull from the main oil pump -- it won't pull oil upward, and would routinely cavitate.
And since the frame is vented, it would not be reliable to forcefeed all oil directly back to the motor inlet -- like from the scavenge pump push. A vented reservoir with plenty of oil above the inlet is probably required engineering for our motor pump. If using an oil cooler, you would push oil through that from the scavenge pump, but still return that same forced oil back to a frame inlet.
And since the frame is vented, it would not be reliable to forcefeed all oil directly back to the motor inlet -- like from the scavenge pump push. A vented reservoir with plenty of oil above the inlet is probably required engineering for our motor pump. If using an oil cooler, you would push oil through that from the scavenge pump, but still return that same forced oil back to a frame inlet.
I was thinking along the lines of a DS650 set up, which also has a dry sump engine with the tank up in the ECU tray. There should be enough room up there, provided you have the Boomer direct intake. Not sure what moving that bit of mass up and forward would do to the handling. If I get really bored sometime, I may tackle it. For now I'll leave well enough alone. The thought of just having one, easy access drain point would be nice.
QUOTE (Canniboomer @ Dec 26 2012, 07:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The rear oil inlet is gravity fed, with no significant suction pull from the main oil pump -- it won't pull oil upward, and would routinely cavitate.
And since the frame is vented, it would not be reliable to forcefeed all oil directly back to the motor inlet -- like from the scavenge pump push. A vented reservoir with plenty of oil above the inlet is probably required engineering for our motor pump. If using an oil cooler, you would push oil through that from the scavenge pump, but still return that same forced oil back to a frame inlet.
And since the frame is vented, it would not be reliable to forcefeed all oil directly back to the motor inlet -- like from the scavenge pump push. A vented reservoir with plenty of oil above the inlet is probably required engineering for our motor pump. If using an oil cooler, you would push oil through that from the scavenge pump, but still return that same forced oil back to a frame inlet.
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MX Quad Dad
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my thoughts are, after a full drain you only put a quart and a half back in and with the engine running there is no way that quart and a half is all up high in the frame. And I see no way of removeing any weight from the frame because you are not useing it for a oil tank which means you will be adding the weight of the remote tank to your overall weight.
Boomer does the tank need to be vented? the crankcase is vented at the starter clutch and the valve cover after the reroute from the service buliton. the oil drain originanally had a banjo fitting that was connected to the top of both frame rails. which the other two now tie into and i know it is all connected to vent. but does it really need to be vented? most equipment nowadays hold pressure in the hydraulic tank, some even add pressure.
I remember Harry Moto was talking about one of his bikes only held .7 quart. I was always woundering if one of the drag guys would ever be brave enough to try a loop setup. one of the reasons for large oil capacity is cooling and with short run times and good oil they might get away with it. a vented tank may allow the oil to defoam more but I keep thinking the short run times may make that a non issue. plus it would give you more frame to drill out.
what does a quart of oil weigh? 2 lbs.? I think you could even make a loop system with a vent.
Boomer does the tank need to be vented? the crankcase is vented at the starter clutch and the valve cover after the reroute from the service buliton. the oil drain originanally had a banjo fitting that was connected to the top of both frame rails. which the other two now tie into and i know it is all connected to vent. but does it really need to be vented? most equipment nowadays hold pressure in the hydraulic tank, some even add pressure.
I remember Harry Moto was talking about one of his bikes only held .7 quart. I was always woundering if one of the drag guys would ever be brave enough to try a loop setup. one of the reasons for large oil capacity is cooling and with short run times and good oil they might get away with it. a vented tank may allow the oil to defoam more but I keep thinking the short run times may make that a non issue. plus it would give you more frame to drill out.
what does a quart of oil weigh? 2 lbs.? I think you could even make a loop system with a vent.
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speedfreek
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m_mcgranahan
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Canniboomer
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QUOTE (speedfreek @ Dec 30 2012, 09:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Not to change the direction of the thread,but I have never gotten more than .75 quart of oil for oil changes. No matter how I change the oil that's all I get out. I put back in the exact amount that drains out. The only time a 1.5 quart was put in was when Wistech rebuilt the engine.
Wow,.... still running it that way?... there is no good reason to accept that as normal... see the following thread?:
Also, are you using one of those pass-straight-thru scavenge line oil strainers on the right side?... The units I looked at several years ago had very skimpy ID's of the in and out fittings (even the 5/16 and 3/8 adapted fittings had the same skimpy ID), and even if used as fully "gutted" without a magnet or anything, they closed off the oil path of a 3/8 hose by half! -- I would be very suspect that you have a scavenge output restriction, or some 1/4" line or tees in the vent system...
Also, I have an upper venting crossyoke kit ($25) that is guaranteed to raise the oil capacity of any machine, and just needs a Direct Intake setup first, to provide the room for it. If the motor is still good, I just know you can keep plenty more oil inside.
http://www.cannondaleriders.com/forums/ind...c=26250&hl=
QUOTE (Canniboomer @ Jan 6 2013, 10:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Wow,.... still running it that way?... there is no good reason to accept that as normal... see the following thread?:
Also, are you using one of those pass-straight-thru scavenge line oil strainers on the right side?... The units I looked at several years ago had very skimpy ID's of the in and out fittings (even the 5/16 and 3/8 adapted fittings had the same skimpy ID), and even if used as fully "gutted" without a magnet or anything, they closed off the oil path of a 3/8 hose by half! -- I would be very suspect that you have a scavenge output restriction, or some 1/4" line or tees in the vent system...
Also, I have an upper venting crossyoke kit ($25) that is guaranteed to raise the oil capacity of any machine, and just needs a Direct Intake setup first, to provide the room for it. If the motor is still good, I just know you can keep plenty more oil inside.
http://www.cannondaleriders.com/forums/ind...c=26250&hl=
Also, are you using one of those pass-straight-thru scavenge line oil strainers on the right side?... The units I looked at several years ago had very skimpy ID's of the in and out fittings (even the 5/16 and 3/8 adapted fittings had the same skimpy ID), and even if used as fully "gutted" without a magnet or anything, they closed off the oil path of a 3/8 hose by half! -- I would be very suspect that you have a scavenge output restriction, or some 1/4" line or tees in the vent system...
Also, I have an upper venting crossyoke kit ($25) that is guaranteed to raise the oil capacity of any machine, and just needs a Direct Intake setup first, to provide the room for it. If the motor is still good, I just know you can keep plenty more oil inside.
http://www.cannondaleriders.com/forums/ind...c=26250&hl=
This setup helped me significantly. I'm running 2 quarts now with no burping oil.