need some help!!!

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02canibalrider · #1 Post by **02canibalrider** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 7:59 pm

well i am about to purchase an 02 cannondale speed. it has a 450 kit ,stage 3 fuel mapping , air box sensor mod ,fuel lines changed around. and a few other things he said he had done

. i am not familar with cannondales. i had no idea there were probs with them until i decided to go to this cannondale forum and i see all this stuff about updates. can people explain to me what these updates are and if u know if there are any dealers in newyork who do cannondael maintenance? i just sold my 2006 lt 450r and regret it cause i cant go without rding so its between an 88 250r thats in good shape or this cannondale which suppose to have 62 hp with dyno sheets and only has a little over 40hrs on it. can u guys tell me about what i should ask him so i dont get screwed? hes asking $3800 is that a fair price? he says the nipples are still on the tires. let me know thanks

wayneschofield · #2 Post by **wayneschofield** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 8:24 pm

QUOTE (02canibalrider @ Dec 13 2007, 07:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

well i am about to purchase an 02 cannondale speed. it has a 450 kit ,stage 3 fuel mapping , air box sensor mod ,fuel lines changed around. and a few other things he said he had done

. i am not familar with cannondales. i had no idea there were probs with them until i decided to go to this cannondale forum and i see all this stuff about updates. can people explain to me what these updates are and if u know if there are any dealers in newyork who do cannondael maintenance? i just sold my 2006 lt 450r and regret it cause i cant go without rding so its between an 88 250r thats in good shape or this cannondale which suppose to have 62 hp with dyno sheets and only has a little over 40hrs on it. can u guys tell me about what i should ask him so i dont get screwed? hes asking $3800 is that a fair price? he says the nipples are still on the tires. let me know thanks

If it REALLY has 62 hp then someone on here is likely to have built it. If they have it will have most of what generally needed with regards updates.

One of the updates neccessary (that is easy to spot from the outside) is a spacer kit between the front engine mount lugs. If there is a bolt going into the front mount from each side and no solid spacer across the front of the case between the mounts then it is very unlikely to have any updates at all, as this is one of the first (and simplest) to do. Also look at the colour of the cam cover. If it is a lightish grey then it is the stock mag one and will rot through behind the water pump impeller unless you have evans coolant in it. If it is dark blue then it is an ally replacement and you can use any coolant suitable for use in alloy engines.

There are many updates you might want, or need, to do depending upon your quad's intended use and the ambient temps where you use it.

Who was the owner of it before? He is likely to be known to forum people if he is genuine....

wistech · #3 Post by **wistech** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 9:31 pm

[quote name='02canibalrider' date='Dec 13 2007, 01:59 PM' post='181625']
suppose to have 62 hp with dyno sheets and only has a little over 40hrs on it. can u guys tell me about what i should ask him so i dont get hes screwed?

Ask him if his name is Winky..LOL

thedeatons · #4 Post by **thedeatons** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 9:38 pm

Black cam cover is also magnesium. That was a factory powdercoat in an effort to curb the problem. What is an airbox sensor mod and what is stage 3 mapping?? LOL. Mapping is always custom, no stages. There may be no airbox, in which case the sensor would be tie-wrapped to the frame, which I suppose is a "mod". What else was done to get 62hp?
Who ported it, because at that level it has to be ported, is the throttle body ported?
What air intake?
Z400 bearing on the crankshaft (big end rod bearing) done? If not crank will be bad very soon.
Stage 8 kit or Blue Bolts on the crankshaft cartridge plate to keep bolts from loosening and coming out (which means pulling the engine)?
Metal or plastic scavenge pump gears? Aluminum or plastic water pump impeller?
Have the cams been checked for sharp edges on the lobes (indicating a batch of soft cams which should NOT be used in the engine)?
What kind of decompression mechanism does it have, bolt or rivet (bolt=better)?
Which piston was used (ASSO, CP, JE, Wiseco), and what liner is it using, cast iron or nykasil coated aluminum?
Chromoly wrist pin?
Is it a stroker? If so who did the crank? Which rod does it have?
Which engine case does it have?
Hydro clutch or cable?
Ball bearing or bushing clutch basket?
How old is the timing chain?
Were the cams timed? If so what were they set at (106/106, 105/106, 106/105)? Were they set with a new timing chain installed?
What size battery does it have (9, 13)?
What is the gearing?

All valid questions that any owner should know....

02canibalrider · #5 Post by **02canibalrider** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 9:38 pm

hes from poland ny i talked to him on the phone he sounds like he knows what hes talking about but ya never know. the ad said it has stage 3 fuel mapping, hyd clutch, 62HP w/Dyno sheets, immac, extremely fast,airbox sensor mod, gear spacing,450kit, something with the valves and some other stuff. i have never dealt with cannondales but always wanted one. do u guys know somewhere close i can have the motor sent out to and an estimated cost of how much it will be to be worked on?

thedeatons · #6 Post by **thedeatons** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 9:40 pm

Get an answer to each of my questions then I can better help you. Each of my questions has a dollar value of worth attached to it, which is why it matters. Many of the questions require an engine removal to remedy it, if it is in need of fixing. Is it worth that to you? To own a Dale you have to be able to work on them. There are no dealers or service centers, unless you are near someone who can help, in which case you better trust them.

02canibalrider · #7 Post by **02canibalrider** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 10:00 pm

im pretty mechanically inclined. i have tore apart dirt bike motors and worked on them i also work on cars alot too. i am gunna be paying $2500 for the quad. i am willing to put money into it if it needs it im just a little scared of buying it after coming on this site and seeing all the posts from people saying there quads dead ,it wont start, and updates. reason i am asking these quads look complicated. they look like theres alot goin on inbetween them frame rails lol. im from troy, ny i would like if possible to send my motor to a respected mechanic that knows his **** about these quads and have him go through it. worse cas senario... how much do people spend on these quads to make them bullet proof. i maintain my vehicles and quads like no other so id do the work to make everything go the best it can.

thedeatons · #8 Post by **thedeatons** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 11:43 pm

The last engine I sold had a $1500 price tag on it, and about $1450 of that was cost of parts, no kidding. That was without checking the cams out either, as I had not learned about that yet. Since then I do a lot more thorough examination. I have a spreadsheet I can send out. Typically around here we ask $250 for labor to rebuild down to the crank, and that is assuming you pull the engine. I am by no means volunteering for this, as I am pretty busy with holidays things. There are good builders, a lot of them are behind because of others in line. Black Widow ATV could do it, Cord does excellent work. Tell Brad James in Idaho sent you, maybe he will cut you a break;).

The engines are complicated, but the manual RULES. There are a few subtle changes that need to be made to the manual regarding torque value, and also a supplement from Timbomoose regarding extra things that should be looked at.

Lots of Dale failures because people do not know the wiring harness and some basic operations of the Dales. Nothing that cannot be learned easily.

02canibalrider · #9 Post by **02canibalrider** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 12:02 pm

well if u could choose to get a dale again would you? thaks for your help also I appreciate it.

cannondale27 · #10 Post by **cannondale27** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 12:43 pm

It sounds like you are near Timbomoose the site owner and best resource out there.Even if its a all day trip it would be worth it for you to take it to him for inspection.Leave the motor in the quad till inspection.You never know maybe he built motor if so you will be good to go.Google to see how far away you are.

Matczak Machining
10926 Lake Pleasant RD
Waterford,PA 16441

Tim 1(814)796-6667