Cam Timing tips

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wayneschofield
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Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:41 pm

#11 Post by wayneschofield »

I turned down the outside of a flywheel puller to mount a threaded boss to securely hold a 'Jomar performance products' (American) degree wheel. I then turned up a rigid pointer to mount in the water outlet hole in the crankcase.

Because it's on the flywheel side and everything is so strong and stiff it doesn't tend to get moved when you're working on the cam drive end of the motor.

There's no 'pointer' in the pic but you can see what I mean with the outlet hole being centred nicely above the wheel.....

cannondale27
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#12 Post by cannondale27 »

That will work nice! Bigger the wheel more accurate it will be also. Thats a big one!

Canniboomer
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#13 Post by Canniboomer »

That Jomar wheel is sweet looking! I agree that using the right side is out of the way, and much easier if you don't already have a custom (and discontinued!) Cannondale degree wheel.

Here's an available one that mounts directly to the crank, on the Flywheel side. The Motion Pro comes with a 6mm center hole, and I drill it out larger with a 15/32" bit. You do not need to buy a 12mm bit, since the wheel fits too sloppy with a full 12mm hole anyway. The 15/32" hole fits over the crank threads precisely.
You might need to have the scavenge hose or starter cover off, just depending on your components.

[attachment=7424:Motion_Pro_Adapted.JPG]

By spacing it out to clear the flywheel housing, using backing washers or a 12mm jam nut, you then bolt it on with the flywheel nut. You do not have to remove the stator.

jinx44
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Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:41 pm

#14 Post by jinx44 »

QUOTE (Canniboomer @ Nov 3 2008, 05:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I agree that using the right side is out of the way, and is easier if you don't already have a custom and discontinued Cannondale degree wheel.

Here's a readily available one that mounts directly to the crank. You also need the scavenge hose and starter cover off.

[attachment=7424:Motion_Pro_Adapted.JPG]

By spacing it out to clear the housing, with backing washers or a 12mm jam nut, you then bolt it on with the flywheel nut.


This is the way I have been doing it, using the same wheel. It works great. I haven't needed to remove the scavenge hose or starter cover though.

kdeal
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Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:41 pm

#15 Post by kdeal »

As long as it mounts solidly to the crank (either end) and you have a rigid pointer it will work. There are plenty of degree wheels out there to choose from.

Kuma
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Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:41 pm

#16 Post by Kuma »

An other option for mounting to the flywheel side using a flat degree wheel is to have a 5/8" whole in your degree wheel, get a 5/8"X 18 nut and use your flywheel puller, use the nut to jam the degree wheel against the puller. This is assuming that if you are timing the cam you likely have a puller.

Deityracer
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Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:41 pm

#17 Post by Deityracer »

QUOTE (Kuma @ Jul 21 2009, 06:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
An other option for mounting to the flywheel side using a flat degree wheel is to have a 5/8" whole in your degree wheel, get a 5/8"X 18 nut and use your flywheel puller, use the nut to jam the degree wheel against the puller. This is assuming that if you are timing the cam you likely have a puller.


can someone post the excel sheet again pleaese? file is no longer available.

Thanks!

Deityracer
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Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:41 pm

#18 Post by Deityracer »

QUOTE (cannondale27 @ Oct 26 2008, 02:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
xxxxxTOOTH COUNT WILL ALWAYS BE SAME AS STOCK NO MATTER MOVESxxxxx
No Degree wheel?Print this off full size paste it to some cardboard or sheetmetal cut it out,stick it on a socket and mount it to crank and your set.(Mydreamrides idea)
[attachment=7413:Degree_Wheel.jpg]

First off be prepared to spend some time doing this. There is no way to estimate how long it will take to reach the specs you want. Couple times I have hit numbers first try. Other times I have tried nearly 40 combinations on one cam to get what I wanted. Have patience.

Before you start look for wear in the cam drive system. Chain, gears, shafts and bearings. Keep in mind that under load most play will be taken up so a bit isn't critical since you are rotating motor in same direction it runs when doing cam timing. Here is a badly worn chain. If chain has any kinks it is junk.
[attachment=7357:Cam_Timi...tips_010.jpg]

TDC bolt in. Setup your wheel. Use a paperclip under filter cover. Get it as close to wheel matching zero line as possible but not touching. You do this because your eyes can play trick depending on angle you are looking at it. Try to look at it straight on and same each time. 1Deg. matters. [attachment=7358:Cam_Timi...tips_016.jpg]

Confirm TDC with indicator to top of piston. I have never found TDC off more than .5Deg but never know. Then setup your indicator. Notice angle matches angle of bucket as close as possible. Put TDC bolt spacer and cranknut on one of side cover bolts as shown. This guarantees you won't forget to tighten or remove TDC bolt depending on style you have BEFORE cover is on. Cranknut Washer also laugh.gif
[attachment=7359:Cam_Timi...tips_018.jpg]
[attachment=7362:Cam_Timi...tips_017.jpg]

Gear bolts should just be lightly tight when doing cam timing. Loosen them using a vice with softjaws and a breaker bar. Notice alignment with cap before you remove gear. Once you disregard the stock markings on gears this helps. I always remark the gears in same way as factory so you can do your tooth count as normal.
[attachment=7360:Cam_Timi...tips_019.jpg]

Leave bolts out of left timing chain guide it and cranknut will need to be removed if you have to move chain or chain driven gear. Everything else is left intact.
[attachment=7361:Cam_Timi...tips_021.jpg]

Use manual for procedure it is very well written. Following the procedure write down all your results each step doing the math in writing it eliminates errors and gives you records of your work. Congratulations if you accomplish this you will have more power and type of power you want. You also are in a very small club of people who are really serious about thier motor building.
[attachment=7363:Cam_Timi...tips_022.jpg]

Use this order for accomplishing your timing goal:
1)Pin position manipulation with ALL stock gear marks lined up
2)Pin position manipulation disregarding cam gear marks
3)Moving chain driven gear one tooth to left/right of stock mark is 4 deg+ 4 deg-
4)Chain driven gearand pin manipulation.
5)If two or four holecam/gear use a fully adjustable gear on one cam or both as last resort

Remark your gears when you are done ensure your new marks are same amount of teeth apart as stock markings.If only moving pins stock markings will be used for alignment.
xxxxxTOOTH COUNT WILL ALWAYS BE SAME AS STOCK NO MATTER MOVESxxxxx

Here is pic of driven gear and the marking I am talking of.When moving this gear chain will stay in stock position on the crank but be moved one notch on drivengear.Along with leaving the bolts out of left chainguide you can leave the bridge/chain squirter off when doing this also.

[attachment=7410:Rachel_b..._Medium_.jpg]
[attachment=7411:Rachel_b..._Medium_.jpg]
[attachment=7412:Rachel_b..._Medium_.jpg]

Remarked gear.White bright dots are new marks.
[attachment=7414:11_02_08_1253.jpg]


Hey C27,

What did you use for the dial indicator probe extension??

Thanks!

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