ATTN: FALICON crankshaft is coming!!
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cannondale27
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- Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:41 pm
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dunnbandit1
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QUOTE
Originally posted by cannondale27
Just because class900 and I were the only ones who had any questions about these cranks and posted them.
Just because class900 and I were the only ones who had any questions about these cranks and posted them.
OK. But again, why do you think I dissed you in this thread? I have never dissed you, and I do respect your opinion. Questions need to be asked. My only problem with this topic from the beginning is why so many people keep asking the same questions over and over, once they are answered (even though I did not mention them in this thread).
In the beginning, you seemed very negative about the cranks that Falicon was going to make, as your crank had just went out. All I have said from the very beginning is: Give Falicon a chance. I have been dealing with them for almost 20 years. There is no equal in the products they manufacture. Look at the drag strip, and road races and you will see their decals on almost every bike out there. I am not an engineer, nor do I claim to be. But, they do have them at Falicon. My impression so far is, why is it taking so long? I believe because they had to re-engineer the crank to some degree. It's not my choice to go with a Yamaha rod, and I wonder why myself. But, this little change enabled them to make some dramatic changes in other areas. The first being the balancing of the crank. By using two near equal crank halves, it is much easier to balance by just about any shop out there.
I honostly believe that the character of the Cannondale is going to take on a whole new character. I'm going to go out on a limb to make a few predictions.
I'll bet that with the Falicon crank the Cannondale motor will run much smoother, and at a lower idle speed. I'll bet the Stage 8 kits and the thread locking of crankplate bolts will be history. I believe the motor will live a whole lot longer at the rev limiter rpms (a place you love to ride at, by the way) without the vibrations we have now with all the other cranks. Lastly, I'll bet that the cranks will last a whole lot longer than anything out there, even the ATK cranks!!!
The only issue I have is two-fold. The new stroke and the shorter rod. I do not believe that they will be reliability issues, just power characteristic issues. More torque, less torque...etc. Shorter rod, means faster rod speeds and steeper rod angles. The extra stroke will make more torque lower in the powerband, but will it steal any revs? I think TimboMoose can answer the stroke questions in this motor, as he uses a stroke close to the new Falicon crank. But it is my understanding he uses a stock length rod????? I don't think (but not sure), the narrower big end of the rod will cause any issues because the Falicon rod is much stronger than a stock rod, and with no balance issues, should last a long time.
My 2 cents.
Whoa guys, no need for this to get out of hand:(
The reasons for the Yamaha spec rod are simple
* There are engineering challenges that occur trying to balance a crank like the one Cannondale used with unequal halves, thinner rod gave them room to correct this.
* Yamaha rod uses the same size wrist pin. they where originally looking at using a CRF 450 rod, but wanted me to use the CRF piston as well. CRF uses larger wristpin and has the same specs as the YZF rod at the big end, Yamaha made more sense.
* The stroke was a standard size that Falicon uses on many motors.
I agree Steve that manufacturing a completely new crank we could have gone a different direction with the rod and could have engineered it to balance. Falicon looked at many options there, and the only one that seemed to be feasable was some sort of bolt on weights on the thin side (BMW apparently does this on some of their cranks). The other issue with the thin side of the crank was that it was not as thick as they would like to hold the pin in place. Again, they could have engineered something to correct. But the rod change took care of all these issues and gave us a standard rod easily obtainable.
Why reinvent the wheel (or crank) when a simple rod change solves so many problems? I can assure you that if Falicon had concerns about the Yamaha rod being reliable, they wouldn't have used it.
I don't believe cost is an issue here, yes maybe Falicon saved a few bucks by using existing rods, but this will also will help keep the cost down for us and we will save when obtaining rods in the future.
The reasons for the Yamaha spec rod are simple
* There are engineering challenges that occur trying to balance a crank like the one Cannondale used with unequal halves, thinner rod gave them room to correct this.
* Yamaha rod uses the same size wrist pin. they where originally looking at using a CRF 450 rod, but wanted me to use the CRF piston as well. CRF uses larger wristpin and has the same specs as the YZF rod at the big end, Yamaha made more sense.
* The stroke was a standard size that Falicon uses on many motors.
I agree Steve that manufacturing a completely new crank we could have gone a different direction with the rod and could have engineered it to balance. Falicon looked at many options there, and the only one that seemed to be feasable was some sort of bolt on weights on the thin side (BMW apparently does this on some of their cranks). The other issue with the thin side of the crank was that it was not as thick as they would like to hold the pin in place. Again, they could have engineered something to correct. But the rod change took care of all these issues and gave us a standard rod easily obtainable.
Why reinvent the wheel (or crank) when a simple rod change solves so many problems? I can assure you that if Falicon had concerns about the Yamaha rod being reliable, they wouldn't have used it.
I don't believe cost is an issue here, yes maybe Falicon saved a few bucks by using existing rods, but this will also will help keep the cost down for us and we will save when obtaining rods in the future.
..I too have thought about the extra stroke,with this crank. To the best of my knowledge more strocke means less rpms?..If i wanted a 400ex powerband,id run a 400ex. Tho if you think about it,we can almost just counter act it with a bigger bore 
and get the same bore x stroke ratio?..Right? But that would be over most guys 450cc limit...
Tho I really do like the idea of this crank, I recall i think it was Cannon27 saying??.. If we got the rod to live longer would the mains live just as long?? Who knows??..But a well balanced crank saves a lot on everything,rods,mains, cases cracking,?? my arms..lol..
And i know i asked this before and yes i did get an answer,tho im still thinking about it....Still not sure about the yamaha bearing,thos have been know to fail..??.
and get the same bore x stroke ratio?..Right? But that would be over most guys 450cc limit...Tho I really do like the idea of this crank, I recall i think it was Cannon27 saying??.. If we got the rod to live longer would the mains live just as long?? Who knows??..But a well balanced crank saves a lot on everything,rods,mains, cases cracking,?? my arms..lol..
And i know i asked this before and yes i did get an answer,tho im still thinking about it....Still not sure about the yamaha bearing,thos have been know to fail..??.
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cannondale27
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A shorter rod will cause more stress on the rod bearing and the pin.That is what I am concerned about not the rod itself.Now the stock rod bearings in our Cannondales fail because of their poor choice of a bearing.I have no doubt that the bearing Falicon uses is a better bearing than stock but it is narrower and will also be under more stress because of the shorter rod.
..Yeah Cannon27 something else i have thought about with a shorter rod is more stress on the cyclinder shorter rod pushs on the skirt more also?..We might start to have sleve's cracking...Im just throwing out things here guys...Id hate for this to open up a new can of worms with this new crank..It just things to think about..
Guys, I hesitated to put my concerns on here to avoid another big debate over nothing. I am more worried about powerband changes than reliability issues.
Steve, I think the rod won't be an issue, as the stock one was plain getting beat up with no true balance. I think the balance issue will completely clear up any rod issues. Remember this will be a billet knife edge rod, not a stock Yamaha rod. I also believe the rod will not be able to walk around as much either. I believe it was you yourself that said that the side clearances were right at the maximum alowable in the specs (.018??). I love the fact that with a stock piston size, the motor will be 449cc. (More Cannondale cubes to whip the masses).
Steve, I think the rod won't be an issue, as the stock one was plain getting beat up with no true balance. I think the balance issue will completely clear up any rod issues. Remember this will be a billet knife edge rod, not a stock Yamaha rod. I also believe the rod will not be able to walk around as much either. I believe it was you yourself that said that the side clearances were right at the maximum alowable in the specs (.018??). I love the fact that with a stock piston size, the motor will be 449cc. (More Cannondale cubes to whip the masses).