400ex and 250r a arms

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jesshamner · #1 Post by **jesshamner** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 10:17 pm

I have been researching this a little bit after seeing the "interchangeable" topic at cannondaler and not getting a good response. After researching in depth on this site, I have found numerous posts about this topic but no definite answer about how well or how poorly this set up worked.

I understand that a 400ex front end will bolt up with some minor mods. To stay at the same overall length, the arms need to be +1 forward. One detail that I couldn't find an answer to was the tierod connection at the stem. It seems there might be a problem with the angle of the tierod. I read that the tierod mount at the stem would have to be dropped. I was also unclear about the tierods themselves.

I also read about the 250r arms will work the same as the 400ex. What I didn't read about is whether the entire front end has to be used like the 400ex does. I noticed that the 250r has a better upper balljoint placement than the 400ex.

Naturally I have a few questions that maybe someone can answer.

First off, has anyone reading this site nowadays actually made the swap and tested it? If so what was the outcome? I am talking about the entire front end swap. I know some attempts at a arms swaps have gone wrong.

When attempting this swap, are the corresponding shocks usable? (ie. 400ex shocks with 400ex front end, 250r shocks with 250r front end or would the cdale shocks still need to be used?)

Does the tierod mount at the stem need to be dropped on either setup?

Does the entire 250r front end need to be used?

Do the tierods need to be swapped also?

I think I might have access to both full front end swaps just to test it out and play around with some settings. If this swap can be successful, it may solve our +1 arm needs but I don't want to get ahead of myself. I'm still a little be suspicious of the whole thing actually working.

If you have any information or recommendations, please share!

jesshamner · #2 Post by **jesshamner** » Sat Jul 01, 2006 5:37 pm

Nobody yet? 14 views and not even a comment or telling me that its a stupid idea.

daler02 · #3 Post by **daler02** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 2:19 am

i have a set of leagers for a 400ex that i am rebuilding right know. i am also going to try them out. i talked to diamond racing and they have the taper bushings for the honda style ball joint. so you could use the stock cannondale spindle. they told me that the first moto had 400ex a arms? as far as moving the tie rod bracket on the stem i have not looked into that yet.. but i have noticed that my ends hit the frame right now when turning sharp.. so i need to move it anyway.. keep posting your progress..

Derno24 · #4 Post by **Derno24** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 11:27 am

The outter set-up isn't the big problem from what I remember. If you switch the entire front spindles and all I think I remember hearing it would work except for the issue just listed. I mean if people want to spend time or have access to be able to fabricate then I am sure it can be made to work.

As for them using a set of 400ex arms for the released moto I doubt it, but in testing I am sure they did as they were putting alot of r&d into the quad and the 250r was the king at the time along with the 400ex.

jesshamner · #5 Post by **jesshamner** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 2:06 pm

I would try asking Jeff Stoess but I already know what he'll say. He says it just won't work. I have seen it several times in the old posts already. But I've also seen where it has worked. The questions remain, how well does it work?, and how does it handle?

From what I have read, the entire front end will have to be used. I was leaning towards the 250r front end though. I think it will be easier to find +1 forward arms that way and it has the better upper balljoint location (even though I would use the entire front end).

One think I hate about the cdale is the lack of choices when buying aftermarket stuff.

Derno24 · #6 Post by **Derno24** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 3:13 pm

Yeah, but like was said it will mount up, but the tierods will hit the frame.

jesshamner · #7 Post by **jesshamner** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 5:47 am

Where do they hit the frame and is what caused it? Compressed suspension? Turning at regular sag? Full extension? Or a combo of all these? Can the tie rod mount at the stem be alter to correct this?

Cndale97x · #8 Post by **Cndale97x** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 2:48 pm

Ok here's what I got. My dale had a stock 400ex front end when I bought it. Spindles, hubs, cals., arms, etc. I upgraded to +2 houser reg travel arms and Elka reb + comp shocks. (for the ex) I did notice my inner tie rods hit the frame. I stiffened up the front springs and problem solved. Although I think if I was to bottom out with the steering turned to either stop, that would be a problem. I do regret going with reg travel. I'm looking to sell my front end for a long travel +3 set up. Let me know if this helps.

jesshamner · #9 Post by **jesshamner** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 3:13 pm

Is there anyway that you can get pics of where the tie rods hit? Maybe remove the shocks and show pics of fully extended and fully compressed?

UpsMan · #10 Post by **UpsMan** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 2:53 am

Anyone have anymore info on this topic? I would love to be able to choose from all the available aftermarket companies when choosing a front suspension. Now what are the choices? ASR and Lonestar? Or am I out of the loop here?