Cannondale27 I fully agree with you. Having just purchased a new speed I am very interested in keeping it running for a long problem free time.I've purchased a stage 8 kit with every intention of installing it. I've thought about sending my motor to south bay but if i do I would request the stage 8 kit I have be installed unless they are using something else (safety wire perhaps). Regular bolts are not going to cut it in this motor no matter how much lockitite is used.
Upon riding mine through the break in period several things I have noticed in the motor. It vibrates so much that it feels like it could shake itself free from the frame rails.THat could also explain the need for the motor mount upgrade. The cranks is balanced very poorly if at all. Figure that is part of south bay's fix along with newly designed or better bearings (more oil flowing around)
Cannondale27 I hope South Bay will come in here and at least address some of the problems they are fixing. If they could at least state the problems they see then we as forum could most likely figure out what is being fixed. I know nobody wants to hurt or take away business from South Bay but at the same time do we need people that seem to have alot of answers coming on here flaunting it in our faces.
Stage 8
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southbaymoto
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- Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:41 pm
On another thread I have been asked to itemise the work we do and the respective costs, I am still trying to complete this detailed breakdown for all of you. Our work is not smoke and mirrors. I firmly disagree that we have been consealing anything. In fact if any of you have called and spoke with us we will tell you in detail about our mods. Our business truly is "of the riders, by the riders and for the riders".:usa
Or engines have been designed by a team that has spent a lifetime developing and building engines. One of our engineers not only builds engines but holds current land speed records. We have a very talented staff that knows engines, how to make them fast and make them last.
I developed the DE1 (dependability kit) to be a valve solution. I know our work is costly therefore I designed it to be reasonably priced and affodable to those of you that do not have financial support for your riding habbits. Please believe me you get more than you pay for in this kit.
We have been working on these engines for over two years now. We have seen what goes wrong and what could go wrong and we have developed ways to correct these issues.
Please feel free to call and talk with us. We are happy to take your questions and give information about our products. View our post about pricing and what we do, I will have it up shortly. Additionally any comments or suggestions are welcome. Please email us at info@southbaymoto.com.
Or engines have been designed by a team that has spent a lifetime developing and building engines. One of our engineers not only builds engines but holds current land speed records. We have a very talented staff that knows engines, how to make them fast and make them last.
I developed the DE1 (dependability kit) to be a valve solution. I know our work is costly therefore I designed it to be reasonably priced and affodable to those of you that do not have financial support for your riding habbits. Please believe me you get more than you pay for in this kit.
We have been working on these engines for over two years now. We have seen what goes wrong and what could go wrong and we have developed ways to correct these issues.
Please feel free to call and talk with us. We are happy to take your questions and give information about our products. View our post about pricing and what we do, I will have it up shortly. Additionally any comments or suggestions are welcome. Please email us at info@southbaymoto.com.
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cannondale27
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- Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:41 pm
I have no doubt of your expertise in these and other motors.I am looking forward to your breakdown of your mods.Maybe after seing it I will be another customer of yours.
You have to agree that there are still mysteries that come up that Cannondale had to know about.They spent huge amounts of money on dynos and did countless testing to gain reliability.Yet I learn about new problems all the time right here and from other owners never from the people whos job it was too know.I know that the only true test is realworld and time and we are dealing with a totally different design of motor which also was changed many times.We here have been addressing problems as they come up and doing it succesfully.If we knew all the potential problems they would be addresed.Your breakdown will atleast make folks aware and if not addresed we wont be hit by surprise.
Thank You
Steve
You have to agree that there are still mysteries that come up that Cannondale had to know about.They spent huge amounts of money on dynos and did countless testing to gain reliability.Yet I learn about new problems all the time right here and from other owners never from the people whos job it was too know.I know that the only true test is realworld and time and we are dealing with a totally different design of motor which also was changed many times.We here have been addressing problems as they come up and doing it succesfully.If we knew all the potential problems they would be addresed.Your breakdown will atleast make folks aware and if not addresed we wont be hit by surprise.
Thank You
Steve
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southbaymoto
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- Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:41 pm
Cannondale's main issue was with management, in my opinion. Not necessarily the managers themselves but the direction from the top. I have met and spoken with many folks there and every one of them had a passion for their work and the heart of a lion.
The issues I have seen have been primarily caused by inconsistency and quality control. Switched component vendors, parts were different on every other unit, missing impellers or bolts etc. This is a possible reason why some units are fine and some are not.
No matter how much time the R&D team spent if management made poor decisions units would fail. Not to the fault of R&D but due to the lack of consistency and management process.
We were able to develop these kits only because of the help and support of the R&D team. We listened to them when management did not, we took a chance and it worked! Mixed with our own ideas and testing we created a tangible sellable product. We owe a lot to Cannondale's R&D team.
Our engine kits are consistent, that??????????????????s why they work, and we fix known problems to deliver a quality product. We always listen to the consumer and mold our business around what they are demanding.
I believe I have explained the reason for all of your frustration. That??????????????????s all it is, frustration, who wouldn??????????????????t be frustrated when their bike is down. We all love the bikes they just need to be built to last and the frustration goes away. After all riding is supposed to be fun and it is a lot more fun if your bike is on the track more than it is in the shop.
The issues I have seen have been primarily caused by inconsistency and quality control. Switched component vendors, parts were different on every other unit, missing impellers or bolts etc. This is a possible reason why some units are fine and some are not.
No matter how much time the R&D team spent if management made poor decisions units would fail. Not to the fault of R&D but due to the lack of consistency and management process.
We were able to develop these kits only because of the help and support of the R&D team. We listened to them when management did not, we took a chance and it worked! Mixed with our own ideas and testing we created a tangible sellable product. We owe a lot to Cannondale's R&D team.
Our engine kits are consistent, that??????????????????s why they work, and we fix known problems to deliver a quality product. We always listen to the consumer and mold our business around what they are demanding.
I believe I have explained the reason for all of your frustration. That??????????????????s all it is, frustration, who wouldn??????????????????t be frustrated when their bike is down. We all love the bikes they just need to be built to last and the frustration goes away. After all riding is supposed to be fun and it is a lot more fun if your bike is on the track more than it is in the shop.
hmmmmmmm........
Did some stuff get wiped off this thread?:confused:
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southbaymoto
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- Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:41 pm
I hear good stuff about SouthBay....
I agree with folks that say those prices are high, but so is everything else for atv's. Gee..2,200 for three shocks sounds reasonable to me. That Southbay stuff is too rich for my blood, but I am not a pro racer, and I have had good luck with mine. To all the people who think it is high priced I have good news. You do not have to send your motor there. Ain't America great??/:usa Not to flame at all, but it looks like somebody wiped things out of this thread, and that is not cool. These people were not out of line, and were only stating thier opinion.
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Ryanstones
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- Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:41 pm
I don't think this thread has been edited
You might be mixing this up with one of the other SB threads ongoing. I don't recall any thread on 'Riders' ever being edited by anyone other than the author.
Free speech lives! thankfully, we're all a pretty civil bunch.
Duplicate topics are sometimes deleted.
Free speech lives! thankfully, we're all a pretty civil bunch.
Duplicate topics are sometimes deleted.
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cannondale27
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- Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:41 pm
Deleted
Some things were deleted.Not by me.But Justifiably so because of language I assume.
After reading the answers and such.I also am not totally convinced of the NEED for all the enhancements.If we all need these enhancements then I for one have a problem.I cant spend that kind of money.
I also don't believe that Cannondales R&D team did as great a job as Dustin thinks.I could be blaming R&D when it was managment who caused R&D to make some changes.In my opinion managment decisions are money based or I hope so yet some of these costed more.I wasnt there but the guys who were arent being very forthcoming with the problems either.Here are some examples.
Clutch Update-went with less plates because of a few cases of bent tabs.Now the clutches dont last as long because of slipping.The first plate was on the radious a minor change to clutch basket and regular clutch inspection were all that was neccesary.
The infamous Magnesium valvecover had to cost more than the old Aluminum one.Why?
The SSM case dont know if it was cheaper to make but the old cast ones dont crack.
Oil blowby-Engines were replaced almost all of them when a better breather was all that was needed in most cases.I saw the piles of recalled motors they werent being looked at for failure analysis they were being rebuilt and sold in "dealer demos" or scrapped.
My point is that if the mods and reliability enhancements were based on input from R&D they might not all be neccesary.I am not 100% sure and could be wrong but I have had quite a few motors apart.I have seen cam lobe wear but only on two one that was sunk in a river for a while and ridden with water in oil and one with a sheared oil pump shaft from the stock bolts loosening.All the others were like new.
The cracked liners,cases,loose bolts,bad cranks I have seen come from both rec riders and racers but that was last year everyone who has done all the updates correctly and did regular oil and filter changes has made this year without a problem to my knowledge.I will do a complete teardown of mine in Oct. to check for wear etc. and then I will decide for sure if the southbay mods are needed.
Ryanstones you were right nothing was deleted it was that balancing thread I got mixed up with.Must be losing it just turned 36 the other day.
After reading the answers and such.I also am not totally convinced of the NEED for all the enhancements.If we all need these enhancements then I for one have a problem.I cant spend that kind of money.
I also don't believe that Cannondales R&D team did as great a job as Dustin thinks.I could be blaming R&D when it was managment who caused R&D to make some changes.In my opinion managment decisions are money based or I hope so yet some of these costed more.I wasnt there but the guys who were arent being very forthcoming with the problems either.Here are some examples.
Clutch Update-went with less plates because of a few cases of bent tabs.Now the clutches dont last as long because of slipping.The first plate was on the radious a minor change to clutch basket and regular clutch inspection were all that was neccesary.
The infamous Magnesium valvecover had to cost more than the old Aluminum one.Why?
The SSM case dont know if it was cheaper to make but the old cast ones dont crack.
Oil blowby-Engines were replaced almost all of them when a better breather was all that was needed in most cases.I saw the piles of recalled motors they werent being looked at for failure analysis they were being rebuilt and sold in "dealer demos" or scrapped.
My point is that if the mods and reliability enhancements were based on input from R&D they might not all be neccesary.I am not 100% sure and could be wrong but I have had quite a few motors apart.I have seen cam lobe wear but only on two one that was sunk in a river for a while and ridden with water in oil and one with a sheared oil pump shaft from the stock bolts loosening.All the others were like new.
The cracked liners,cases,loose bolts,bad cranks I have seen come from both rec riders and racers but that was last year everyone who has done all the updates correctly and did regular oil and filter changes has made this year without a problem to my knowledge.I will do a complete teardown of mine in Oct. to check for wear etc. and then I will decide for sure if the southbay mods are needed.
Ryanstones you were right nothing was deleted it was that balancing thread I got mixed up with.Must be losing it just turned 36 the other day.
hear ya there brother....
I paid $12,500. for a quad because I thought that I could ride it as is, and not have to put thousands of more dollars into it. I like the Moto even though it is not perfect, but a quad I paid that kind of money for a year ago should not have to have several thousand more put into it. Ecspecially since it would be hard to find somebody to give me $5,000. for it. I could afford to dump some money into it, but I sure would be p155ed if I had to. Some of us have households to run and other things besides quads to spend money on. Like I said before this atv stuff is ridiculously priced.