hey ya'll, I thought i had this thing all back together and ready to run. Dam!
As posted before, my Dealer just installed a new piston/sleeve/intake valves and the crank stud update. During my final 15 minute breakin ride, the clutch was groaning in 1st. Not surprised, even though the dealer said the plates 'looked' good, because it's 14months old and I sucked a bunch of water in the tranny vent hose 2 rides back. I had flushed it 5 times then and worked fine. I pulled her in to change the oils. Draining the left spar i thought,"man that's more oil than usual". Pull the drain plug and the petro 20/50 looked a little strange and a lot of it. I Pulled the tranny drain and got maybe 10 tablespoons of 75-90 synthetic gear oil out!!!
Yep, the tranny oil is moving into the crankcase! I couldn't believe it, adjusted the clutch, refilled with oils and ran 15 minutes. She is rippin! Feels great!
Pull back in, let it sit 5 minutes and oil on motor dipstick is up 1/2". Popped clutch cover and oil level is down 75%.
I'm hoping you Cannondale racers and whiz's can offer some possibilities, any input is appreciated. What the heck happened?
help with troubleshooting?? please
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LapTraffic
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Ryanstones
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LOL
I bet under 3. lol. Appreciate your misplaced confidence there Lap 
Dang, it's runnin GREAT too. I'm guessing it must be a main shaft seal? Could have dried up in the 10! weeks it took to get the engine back? I'm not laying it on the dealer/mechanic just yet, but... even so I would pull the engine myself and if i'm gonna do that again, it may be timme to learn about the innards of this thing too.
He's a competent mechanic but i've got way more 'dale experience than he does and would be more thorough.
Anybody know if the newer 8 plate clutch fits in my basket?
What is hypoid gear oil? I have used several different off the shelf gear oils, but got best results with penzoil 75-90 synthetic. Dealer seemed to think that was wrong.
Dang, it's runnin GREAT too. I'm guessing it must be a main shaft seal? Could have dried up in the 10! weeks it took to get the engine back? I'm not laying it on the dealer/mechanic just yet, but... even so I would pull the engine myself and if i'm gonna do that again, it may be timme to learn about the innards of this thing too.
He's a competent mechanic but i've got way more 'dale experience than he does and would be more thorough.
Anybody know if the newer 8 plate clutch fits in my basket?
What is hypoid gear oil? I have used several different off the shelf gear oils, but got best results with penzoil 75-90 synthetic. Dealer seemed to think that was wrong.
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LapTraffic
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well, let us know what it is 
and time it this time.
Hypoid gear oil is not so much a question of oils as it is gears. Hypoid gears are the kind that are angled instead of straight cut. This is plageurized from the net. Apparently written by some poor slob with too much time on his hands
Because of the sliding contact that hypoid gears make, their
hydrodynamic contact pressure is higher. To be suitable for use with
hypoid gears, a lubricant must be capable of resisting high pressures.
Oils with "EP" ratings (Extreme Pressure) such as EP90 are required.
Some brands describe themselves as "hypoid" instead, a term which is
synonymous with EP. GL-5 is a formal API standard for this type of oil
(comparable to MIL-L-2105B/C/D)
So apparently oils with an EP rating are 'Hypoid'. My guess is that the added ingredients to help the oil in that particular gear application would be detrimental with a wet clutch.
Im using Redline's 'superlight weight shockproof gear oil' Sounds kinda 'Hypoidy' to me, but Im able to hit neutral pretty easy now, and no slipping from the clutch.
and time it this time.Hypoid gear oil is not so much a question of oils as it is gears. Hypoid gears are the kind that are angled instead of straight cut. This is plageurized from the net. Apparently written by some poor slob with too much time on his hands
Because of the sliding contact that hypoid gears make, their
hydrodynamic contact pressure is higher. To be suitable for use with
hypoid gears, a lubricant must be capable of resisting high pressures.
Oils with "EP" ratings (Extreme Pressure) such as EP90 are required.
Some brands describe themselves as "hypoid" instead, a term which is
synonymous with EP. GL-5 is a formal API standard for this type of oil
(comparable to MIL-L-2105B/C/D)
So apparently oils with an EP rating are 'Hypoid'. My guess is that the added ingredients to help the oil in that particular gear application would be detrimental with a wet clutch.
Im using Redline's 'superlight weight shockproof gear oil' Sounds kinda 'Hypoidy' to me, but Im able to hit neutral pretty easy now, and no slipping from the clutch.
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cannondale27
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Ryanstones,
One thing to check is to see if there is also motor oil going into the tranny.It sounds like since you only got 10 tblsp out it isnt.If it were a seal you would think that the two oils would mix some in tranny and some in motor.I would double check to seethat the tranny vent line(Top of big sidecover where cam gear is under)isnt routed to anything other than air.This is really weird though since all the seals except the crank seal at the flywheel are double they work both ways.
One thing to check is to see if there is also motor oil going into the tranny.It sounds like since you only got 10 tblsp out it isnt.If it were a seal you would think that the two oils would mix some in tranny and some in motor.I would double check to seethat the tranny vent line(Top of big sidecover where cam gear is under)isnt routed to anything other than air.This is really weird though since all the seals except the crank seal at the flywheel are double they work both ways.
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Ryanstones
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hmm stupid
Good research Lap, it appears that in my ignorance i have been using 'hypoid' gear oil at least half my quads life. That GL-5 designation is on the bottle.:confused: I don't think it has hurt my clutch as it has worked great up til now and neutral has always been easy to get. Could it hurt the seals? Seems odd that it would.
I did just double check the tranny vent hose, I had rerouted it higher to keep it out of deep water. It now ends just below the airbox, now above the nipple on the case, where it was below before. It is definitely drawing from the tranny into the crank. Nearly emptied the tranny in a 15 minute low-mid rpm ride.
Autox, i bet that mobil 1 is GL-5 also.
I did just double check the tranny vent hose, I had rerouted it higher to keep it out of deep water. It now ends just below the airbox, now above the nipple on the case, where it was below before. It is definitely drawing from the tranny into the crank. Nearly emptied the tranny in a 15 minute low-mid rpm ride.
Autox, i bet that mobil 1 is GL-5 also.
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Ryanstones
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That's right
It appears that if i ran it long enough it would empty the tranny. There is no indication that oil is moving from the crank to the tranny. I've filled oils and checked this twice with the same results.
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LapTraffic
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TricityCdale
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Clutch answer
Ryan,
To answer your question about the clutch plate update, yes.....the new 8 plate design fits in the existing basket. I have done this with mine, as I broke 2 of the original plates. The new plates also require one less steel plate. Get all new of each as well as new springs.
Sorry, I have no suggestions about the real problem.:confused:
To answer your question about the clutch plate update, yes.....the new 8 plate design fits in the existing basket. I have done this with mine, as I broke 2 of the original plates. The new plates also require one less steel plate. Get all new of each as well as new springs.
Sorry, I have no suggestions about the real problem.:confused: