The next Weakness in our engines!!

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wistech · #11 Post by **wistech** » Fri Nov 26, 2004 5:25 pm

Thats interesting. What are the two smeared items next to the rollers. What was the cage made out of and where is it? What does the thrust surface of the inner crank race look like. Was the oil hole clogged? Haydug might be right on. If those rings were formed from the outer race thrust edges smearing then it may just be the hardened part of the race wearing through and the softer metal underneath slowly squishing out. Ball bearings are the answer to thrust loads for sure but we would need some that have a high enough radial load rating. So what happened to the motor? Did it lock up. Hows the rod bearing? Hows the big bearing in the crank plate? Sorry for all the questions but that a wierd one.

cannondale440 · #12 Post by **cannondale440** » Fri Nov 26, 2004 5:56 pm

The 2 smeared items are the roller retainers "i think thats what your talkin about". Cage, i didnt really find one, it may have ended up in my filter. the race has a few scratches "gouges" and is deffently not precision smooth. Oil hole was not clogged. As for my rod bearing its bad too, I dont know the extent of the damage, as my crank is still in one piece. It does rotate freely, and side clearance is off. There is a very slight up and down movement on the rod and id assume that the rod bearing cage was in my filter too.

Shavings did seem to be magnetic, at first i thought they where from the piston and sleeve but the piston is aluminum so........ill post a pic of my piston to show the damage to it. Any other question feel free to ask and i hope that I stated all clearly enough. :confused:

Oh and plate bearing seems just fine and no the motor didnt lock up, I dropped it since I got a unbelievable amount of shavings in my filter and I know that this engine was way over due for a inspection. Like I said ATleast 300hrs.

wistech · #13 Post by **wistech** » Fri Nov 26, 2004 6:06 pm

Now thats really strange. The only bearings Ive seen on the flywheel side are ones with a brass cage and a black plastic cage. I have used a ball bearing with steel cage around the balls but thats obviously not what you have. I wonder if your engine had some mutant bearing we have not seen yet. Is that a cast case engine. I know there were some cranks that had a larger journal on the flywheel side . You might want to take a close look at all your oil pumps. I think maybe your oil flow stopped. Check for sheared drive pins ,galled rotors and blockage in the frame spars. Your going to have a tough time cleaning the metal out of the frame. You can never flush them enough.

cannondale440 · #14 Post by **cannondale440** » Fri Nov 26, 2004 6:21 pm

Im not sure what case i got. It is the manual clutch. I take it my piston looks pretty normal? Pumps look to be in good shape, no binding and smooth as silk. what do you use to flush a frame. i was thinkin a gardan hose. any thoughts?

LOL, I hope you guys dont mind pictures...

wistech · #15 Post by **wistech** » Fri Nov 26, 2004 6:34 pm

Your piston looks like it had lots of metal flung into it. That generally comes from rod bearing cage disitagration. More pics the better. Can you get the right side of the crank and the bearing surfaces. A steam cleaner with lots of frothy soap is the way to clean out the frame. Tipping it upside down and at all angles to get the debris moving. Massive amount of sump magnets are worth every penny. They would collect all the trash thrown off by the rod failure and kept them out of the frame.

cannondale440 · #16 Post by **cannondale440** » Fri Nov 26, 2004 6:40 pm

O ya i got a camera on hand. Though it sucks compaired to dernos but here ya go.

cannondale440 · #17 Post by **cannondale440** » Fri Nov 26, 2004 6:42 pm

ten char.......

cannondale27 · #18 Post by **cannondale27** » Fri Nov 26, 2004 6:45 pm

I will stand by my original observation that the motor got very hot.Those two rings are whats left of the plastic mainbearing cage.Melted and the piston siezed up for a while.All heat related.How was your impellar?The early motors such as this one is often had the impellars that had the insert in them which would spin or worse yet the impellars that were soft plastic which would stripout.

cannondale440 · #19 Post by **cannondale440** » Fri Nov 26, 2004 6:48 pm

Impeller is in perfect shape, and my piston never seized at all. Man im rackin up the posts on this thread. :head:

My engine always ran at like 168 degrees. I believe that is normal? I could be wrong its been awhile since ive had the D&M hooked up. I'm not sayin your wrong cannon27, maybe it got to hot doin a few drag races in a row.

cannondale27 · #20 Post by **cannondale27** » Fri Nov 26, 2004 7:24 pm

Your piston did sieze thats what the scoring and pitting is from.Often they can sieze and break loose without you ever noticing.
That bearing really got hot you can see discoloration in the race even.But your rod looks great yet?Flywheelside bearing is just gravity fed oil so that shouldnt be a concern.If cooling system was good then I would just say that the cage of the bearing just failed from wear and possibly from all the crank endplay our motors have which could weaken the cage of that bearing.Can you measure the width of the crank?Was the crankplate bolts ever loose?That also causes excess endplay.