metal in oil pump again

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harleypitbull1 · #1 Post by **harleypitbull1** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 2:17 am

Well, I fixed the oil pump problem before. Got the motor back in thursday night. Rode it around the shop a little, it seemed to be fine. Rode it around the house a little friday evening. It was still fine. Went riding today and less than 2 miles in the woods, it starts puking oil again. Went back to the truck and pulled the side cover and the oil pump gear is stripped again. I took extra precaution when replacing the oil pump last time. I blew the return hole out with air and everything. WHAT CAN I DO TO AVOID HAVING THIS PROBLEM AGAIN? I am getting frustrated, this is getting rediculous. Oh yeah, almost forgot, the reason for the first oil pump failure was because I had a decomp mechanism explode. Fixed that and after I got the motor back in it puked oil. Fixed that and now it has done it again. PLEASE HELP

Happyboy · #2 Post by **Happyboy** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 2:28 am

Did you file back down any burs around the oil pump area and the pump rotors themselves? If you can't turn it by hand then it would need to be cleaned up more. Only think I can think of is something else jammed in there. That sucks man, sorry to hear that. You also could have had something else lodged further up the stream and with it pumping again it got knocked loose.

thedeatons · #3 Post by **thedeatons** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 2:53 am

Do you have metal pump gears? That usually helps... Make sure you have a magnet behind the screen in the sump pickup, another magnet in the filter where the frame drains into the case (in the rear of the case on the left). Magnetic drain plugs on the case and the tranny. Cdsracer also came up with a filter for one of the oil tubes leading down from the cam gear idler bracket.One of the tubes will spit unfiltered (meaning unmagneted) oil right to the scavenge pump. Let me know if you need any of this stuff, we could send them off for the cost of shipping. It is important to protect the pump with magnets andmetal gears, so that nothing is let by... If you recently had a catastrophic failure then it may be a good idea to flush the frame a few times, as some of the shards may have made there way into there. I hope this helps!

harleypitbull1 · #4 Post by **harleypitbull1** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 3:16 am

I have the plastic gears. Also I do not have any magnets, I am willing to try anything. I am about to the point if it dont fix this time of putting it up for sale. I love it but in the last month, I have worked on it about 20 hours and rode it about 2. I put a ton of air through the return hole, should that not have dislodged any other pieces? I heard something about aluminum or metal gears, wouldnt that just cause it to break the pin or something in the oil pump itself? and yes I filed down the burrs, I was really careful hoping I got it fixed this time.

thedeatons · #5 Post by **thedeatons** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 3:59 am

Okay.... that is it then, we found the problem. Since installing metal gears in our Dales, we have not had any scavenge pump failures, when we used to have them periodically. Call Black Widow ATV on Monday and spend the ~$110 on metal pump gears. The plastic ones suck and should be tossed. The metal gears are strong enough to allow the pump to turn and actually grind the shards out, instead of stopping and stripping the plastic gears. This will cure 80% of your problems. The magnets are also absolutely mandatory. Please don't sell the quad for something like this, they just need a little care. Einstein said the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, each time expecting different results. If we do the same thing Cannondale did, we will get engine failures. With a few simple preventative measures in place, that engine should be bullet proof. If you want the magnets, just paypal me like $5 and I will get them in the mail within a few days. There are some other thigns you should do while you have the engine out, for reliability's sake... My paypal address is the same as my email address: thedeatons@hotmail.com. Just include your address and we can get you taken care of. Feel free to email me with specific questions. We can chat about the other few things you can do while you're in there! James

claas900 · #6 Post by **claas900** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 4:50 am

You dont need metal oil pump gears. The fix isnt to force it. The fix is to find out were the metal is comeing from. Thoes gears run 3 pumps,and the one your stripping is running 2 pumps. So your dealing with 2 pumps one or both have metal or a burr on them.I think the plastic gears are better cuss with metal your just going to break something else. You need to find were its comeing from.
You need to make sure you can turn the pump over by hand with the crank plate torked down. If there is any burrs on the rotors you need to smoth them out. Save the 110$ for something else.
Also when you put it back togher make sure you do the psi test to make sure you dont have any leaks.
http://www.cannondaleriders.com/forums/ind...showtopic=11370

thedeatons · #7 Post by **thedeatons** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 5:13 am

Good post.... I like the leakdown link.... You made a good point about the two pumps on that one gear causing the problem. I think cdsracers filter for the oil tube would help out in this instance, because if you have magnets in place there are few other ways to get metal to the scavenge pump. The vertical oil tube attached to the cam gear idler bracket drops oil straight into the pump. The screens cdsracer found would block those pieces of metal, which in turn should help save the pump. I am not sure I agree with you on the metal gear issue, but you did bring up good points, which I think the rest of my post addressed... If every entrance to the pumps is screened and magnet protected, the pumps will get no shavings, causing no stripped gears.

iceracer17 · #8 Post by **iceracer17** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 2:17 pm

I too believe the metal gears are not needed.If you didn't flush the frame that is probably the problem.And at least put a pellet magnet in the back oil line.

harleypitbull1 · #9 Post by **harleypitbull1** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 5:06 pm

Well when the cam decomp broke it just died. I cleaned all the pieces our or so I thought before I put it back together. Why would I need to flush the frame? but if I need to, I will. Also Deaton, what other preventive things are you talking about? My motor has all the updates, It was completely went through by Timbo about a year ago. Thanks guys, and on the frame flush, how do you do it?

Also, Where can I get the magnets? I dont mind getting them from Deatons but I plan on tearing this thing apart monday and getting the parts this week to get it going again. He said he could get them in the mail in a few days. Nothing wrong with that and I appreciate the offer, if you could ship them the next day or if someone knows where I can get them next day, please let me know. Thanks for the help

claas900 · #10 Post by **claas900** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 7:16 pm

With just the Decomp breaking it shouldn????????t just kill the motor. Something else went also along with the decomp to kill it. Pieces of the Decomp could have got caught between the cam and bucket, or bucket and spring,something. No Decomp only makes it hard to start it does nothing else for the motor. The only reason for needing to flush the frame is if something got ground up to tiny pieces, but chunks will get caught in the inlet screen or filter. Magnets are never a bad idea some are put into the head witch helps prevents metal from getting into the pump.
I hate to say this and not trying to come off mean, but something was over looked when it was put back tougher and for a Decomp to fail and kill the motor something else is broke also. A piece of the Decomp could have gotten between the cam and bucket bending a valve or valve hitting piston something.