oil everywhere!
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MyCannibal
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- Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:41 pm
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thedeatons
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- Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:41 pm
Yeah, you're right... After all with more than 14 Dales in the group out here, what do we know? CordovaDaler fouled his plug and pked oil on 1.5 qts, so did cdsracer, and so did I when I got my Moto. Perhaps I dreamt that all up?
Maybe you guys change your oil differently?
Maybe if you guys rode with us and experienced this stuff you would see things differently?
By the way, Steve is always the one that calls me wrong first.
Funny, the internet has made people very tactless. I would never tell someone to their face that they were "just plain wrong" unless I was looking to get my face smashed in. I suppose there is a comfort level in being 2000 miles away and therefore being able to say whatever you want.
Bottom line is, you overfilled the quad, or your scavenge pump is not scavenging.
By the way, cdsracer, who taught me to fill with barely more than 1 qt, bought his quad from Alba Action Sports in Poway, CA back in 2002. He rides dunes for one weekend every month in the winter, each trip about 300 miles of riding. He has been doing this on his original engine since 2002 with only a Stage 8 update. The engine has never been out, just lowered to install the Stage 8 years ago. Original crank, original cams. I think if there was going to be an oil level problem with 1 qt, we would have found it by now.
Maybe you guys change your oil differently?
Maybe if you guys rode with us and experienced this stuff you would see things differently?
By the way, Steve is always the one that calls me wrong first.
Funny, the internet has made people very tactless. I would never tell someone to their face that they were "just plain wrong" unless I was looking to get my face smashed in. I suppose there is a comfort level in being 2000 miles away and therefore being able to say whatever you want.
Bottom line is, you overfilled the quad, or your scavenge pump is not scavenging.
By the way, cdsracer, who taught me to fill with barely more than 1 qt, bought his quad from Alba Action Sports in Poway, CA back in 2002. He rides dunes for one weekend every month in the winter, each trip about 300 miles of riding. He has been doing this on his original engine since 2002 with only a Stage 8 update. The engine has never been out, just lowered to install the Stage 8 years ago. Original crank, original cams. I think if there was going to be an oil level problem with 1 qt, we would have found it by now.
The only way 1.5 qts can cause an overfill problem is if he quad was not completely drained first. By completely drained , I mean draining both frame spars and the oil in the engine case and changing the filter.
Normally, hydro locking only occurs when the check valve sticks regardless of oil quantity.
Normally, hydro locking only occurs when the check valve sticks regardless of oil quantity.
Pull off the gloves for a second and consider this...
Lets say your check ball sticks or leaks and you are underfilled and it all ends up in the sump of your motor you never know it because it is not quite enough to hydrolock. I am beginning to think that happens alot more than we think and 1.5 is right on the edge of what the sump will take. If you overfill even just a little bit and the ball sticks it really makes you pay with a puking. I am also beginning to think that overfilling may even contribute in some way to helping the ball to leak with the extra weight of more oil and compounds the problem.
If you only open all three drains and dont do any tipping to drain out that last probably 1/4 to half a quart then a one quart change may do it without over or under filling. Myself I like to get all the oil out that I can and it takes at least 1.5 qts. I have only recently gotten lazy and slightly overfilled once and paid the pukin price.
Ray
Lets say your check ball sticks or leaks and you are underfilled and it all ends up in the sump of your motor you never know it because it is not quite enough to hydrolock. I am beginning to think that happens alot more than we think and 1.5 is right on the edge of what the sump will take. If you overfill even just a little bit and the ball sticks it really makes you pay with a puking. I am also beginning to think that overfilling may even contribute in some way to helping the ball to leak with the extra weight of more oil and compounds the problem.
If you only open all three drains and dont do any tipping to drain out that last probably 1/4 to half a quart then a one quart change may do it without over or under filling. Myself I like to get all the oil out that I can and it takes at least 1.5 qts. I have only recently gotten lazy and slightly overfilled once and paid the pukin price.
Ray
Another problem when you overfill the oil and it pukes is that oil gets into the vent portion of the frame (RR frame spar) and it is trapped there until it is blown out. So if you overfill it enough to puke oil into the airbox, then it is most likely that you will continue to have oil puke out into the breather until all of that oil in the vent area is blow out, regardless of how little oil you put back in after the oil change.
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thedeatons
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- Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:41 pm
So to clarify:
I drain the top right frame outlet first. Then I drain the bottom left oil outlet second. Then I move to the sum and drain that. After it is drain while level, I tip the quad up on its right side, and let it sit on the balance point for about 2 minutes.
After all that I drop the quad, put the drain plug back in, and move to the oil filter. I remove it, wipe out the cavity, then install a new filter, remembering to lube the seals on the edge of the filter with fresh oil.
After reinstalling the filter I take my 1 gallon jug of Red Line Motor Oil, and fill a 1 qt container with the Red Line. Then I dump the 1 qt of Red Line into the frame using a funnel. After totally draining the 1 qt container of Red Line into the frame I reinstall the dipstick. I then start the engine and let it idle for about three minutes. After shutting it down I check the level.
If it is halfway up my dipstick then I walk away. Done. This has never caused a problem in the Moto I had or the Glamis I have.
The other quads in the group out here in Sac and Boise do the same process, and all have been fine.
I did have a cam go down in my Moto engine (meaning the edge of the lobe was sharp), but it was found to be a soft cam. The other cam in the engine was fine, hardness tested anyway and found to be in spec.
I dunno guys... Maybe there is a range we can run at. You can't call it wrong if it is working....
I drain the top right frame outlet first. Then I drain the bottom left oil outlet second. Then I move to the sum and drain that. After it is drain while level, I tip the quad up on its right side, and let it sit on the balance point for about 2 minutes.
After all that I drop the quad, put the drain plug back in, and move to the oil filter. I remove it, wipe out the cavity, then install a new filter, remembering to lube the seals on the edge of the filter with fresh oil.
After reinstalling the filter I take my 1 gallon jug of Red Line Motor Oil, and fill a 1 qt container with the Red Line. Then I dump the 1 qt of Red Line into the frame using a funnel. After totally draining the 1 qt container of Red Line into the frame I reinstall the dipstick. I then start the engine and let it idle for about three minutes. After shutting it down I check the level.
If it is halfway up my dipstick then I walk away. Done. This has never caused a problem in the Moto I had or the Glamis I have.
The other quads in the group out here in Sac and Boise do the same process, and all have been fine.
I did have a cam go down in my Moto engine (meaning the edge of the lobe was sharp), but it was found to be a soft cam. The other cam in the engine was fine, hardness tested anyway and found to be in spec.
I dunno guys... Maybe there is a range we can run at. You can't call it wrong if it is working....
This is my take on the topic. Even though it is getting a little off topic:
You should run as much oil as the system will hold. Especially if you are running your machine for an extended period of time like a Cross Country race or what not. To include trail riding and duning. Oil is going to help your machine run cooler, and just like your coolant, the more you have the cooler it has the potential of running. Then you get into the filtering and what not aspect. Remember the kits you could get for some quads to get rid of the oil tank? These kits were only encouraged to be used if being used in a situation where you were doing regular oil changes on low run hours. Like a MX race or drag racing. That is also the reason why some companies made the larger oil tanks for those doing desert and GNCC style racing.
If 1 quart is enough to ensure the oil is circulating, then go with it. The extra 1/2 quart is added insurance. Myself, I prefer the added insurance.
If I rebuilt someones motor and it locked up, and then found out they weren't running the amount of oil specified in the manual I would say too bad, lack of oil could have caused it.
You should run as much oil as the system will hold. Especially if you are running your machine for an extended period of time like a Cross Country race or what not. To include trail riding and duning. Oil is going to help your machine run cooler, and just like your coolant, the more you have the cooler it has the potential of running. Then you get into the filtering and what not aspect. Remember the kits you could get for some quads to get rid of the oil tank? These kits were only encouraged to be used if being used in a situation where you were doing regular oil changes on low run hours. Like a MX race or drag racing. That is also the reason why some companies made the larger oil tanks for those doing desert and GNCC style racing.
If 1 quart is enough to ensure the oil is circulating, then go with it. The extra 1/2 quart is added insurance. Myself, I prefer the added insurance.
If I rebuilt someones motor and it locked up, and then found out they weren't running the amount of oil specified in the manual I would say too bad, lack of oil could have caused it.
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speedracer
- Posts: 0
- Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:41 pm
I did not want to start a conflict!Just wanted to find out what was going on with this quad.I will drain the oil,put about a quart & a forth like I have in the past on the other Dales.I have only put two hours on this quad,so I have never changed nor added any oil.When I checked it level was good,so was color.I will post the results,now play nice guys!
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speedracer
- Posts: 0
- Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:41 pm
Well,its still blowing oil from the vent tube.Its a heavy stream at full throttle,none at half or idle.Does this sound like scavange pump gears?I do not have a clue how to repair this,but I would like to give it a try.Is there anywhere I can print out a step by step?bty,is this a remove engine repair?Thanks in advance.